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New PNC Lease

Saw this in the News and Observer last night regarding the negotiations for a new PNC lease for the Carolina Hurricanes:

Note the headline:  "Hurricanes on PNC Arena lease negotiations: ‘The economics of the deal have to change in our favor’".

Maybe I do not have the perspective some of you have.  Especially since I recently moved back to the state after being away for 30 years.  I am of the opinion that NC State should not be dealing with a professional sports team for the right to use our own arena.  However, that would mean a large hole in the arena's income.  I personally do not like the idea of another sports entity trying to usurp our arena.

Thought I would throw this topic out there to get any of your perspective.


  • TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 2,583PFN Referee
    Wouldn't mind to see us move it back to Reynolds.  Better college atmosphere and better home court advantage.  Guess that would kick out the ladies though, which is kinda shitty.
  • 44rules44rules Posts: 435
    Love that too, AT. But the Reynolds remake means it only seats 5,400, IIRC.
  • TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 2,583PFN Referee
    Yeah, ticket prices would no doubt be higher and they'd probably still lose money.
  • 10K towards a new bb arena on campus.  I don’t know where you would put it but it was a damn shame going the pnc route imo.
  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 2,397
    One of the things I would be least likely to trade about my time at State is the Reynolds experience.  The corporate/pro sports arenas just don't do the college game justice.  On campus should always be the way to go for basketball.
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,110PFN Referee
    10K towards a new bb arena on campus.  I don’t know where you would put it but it was a damn shame going the pnc route imo.
    +1 to this.  Show me a real plan to get us on campus in a 12k-15k arena that is only for NC State.  Show me a fund that earmarks money ONLY for that.  I'll show NC State a check.
  • HighstickHighstick Posts: 340PFN Referee
    I honestly think you guys would complain if it was on the Centennial Campus.  It's never going to go back to the 60's and 70's guys!
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 2,519
    Without getting out my Topo maps, I think that there is enough land on the Centennial campus for a 15K arena.  As you head from the Catholic Church towards the Farmer’s Market on Centennial Drive, there is a lot of vacant land on the right....just before you get to the FM.  Mostly seen this at night and there may be some mega grading sand drainage issues, but we do have a CE department.

    I sure would put up some heavy duty $$ to see it built.....I am 15 minutes from my house to my seats in Reynolds.
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,110PFN Referee
    Stick:  Maybe I just wax nostalgic for Reynolds, but I think the students are missing an awful lot by not having it on campus.  I’d put $$$ up for that (with no expectations on any tickets, etc.) as a way of giving back what I once had.

    I fully admit that it makes zero economic sense to do this.  Therefore NC State will play men’s basketball in the ESA until the place has to be bulldozed.  To your point, we may as well embrace it.
  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 1,453
    The decision to turn Reynolds into something else than a men’s basketball venue was probably death knell for a truly special arena. 

    I will say that being at the UVA game, with excellent seats totally changed the environment. When we made our runs, it was raucous and loud. However, if you can’t have a special experience when playing a critical conference game versus the number 2 team in the country while you are in the Top 25, when can you?

    Part of me wonders if the ship has sailed. We sold our souls to play in a hockey arena and the end result is that too many of our tickets go to corporate fat cats who could care less about N.C. State and too many seats are too far from the court. 

    Funny, I wonder how many people would be going to Red Sox games, especially during the regular season if they played at some McStadium.
  • 4in124in12 Posts: 177
    I think NCSU needs to do something about the baseball facilities before spending boatloads of money on a new basketball arena.
  • RickRick Posts: 2,186PFN Referee
    Isn't the arena and ltrs the last legacy of Fowler?

    His stench is strong.

  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 2,519
    edited February 2019
    We all have our memory of how the ESA or whatever it was called came about.  Jimmy V had a dream of a NEW BB Arena.....sort of like Madison Square Garden with Magnolias.  BUT, that got morphed into a COMBO DEAL where the folks wanted a Pro Team and the NHL was the only thing that might sell....as we had CARY (Containment Area for Retired Yankees).....please take that in JEST....as there are a lot of nice retirees or transferred folks from NORTH of here.  However, the ones that start the conversation...."You folks in the SOUTH don't know how to "FIB".  UP North (or in FIB State), this is HOW we did it and we are the experts...."   THEY annoy me and are the stereotypical brunt of jokes...

    The PNC should have been about one third smaller.....on that most BB folks agree.  Same for the Hockey folks.  There are a LOT of folks that had to pour $$ into the NHL Franchise towards the end to help out Karmonos (Sp?) as his empire was about to go "south".  Jim Goodmon and Jim Goodnight and many others bought into or got a piece of the PNC Hurricanes....and they probably made money when the economy improved and K sold out....as they had minority interest.....

    I don't know if Fowler should be "blamed" for the LTR fiasco....that really goes back, more to  certain issues....  

    First....the facility GREW due an ill informed "commission"....which was IRONICALLY honored at the VA TECH game....  I sort of laughed and said....this is NCSU's FAKE NEWS....

    Once they supersized it....then they had to SELL TICKETS.  The BB tickets increased at a whopping rate over Reynolds.  Factor in our stellar winning percentage when Les took over and the program was effectively CASTRATED by Dr. Monteith and his unindicted co-conspirators such as Sitton and Spangler and the NC Legislature and the NCSU Faculty Senate....ENOUGH....we ALL KNOW or should know.

    THEN....we had to start selling tickets....OK....who is our "Marketing" agent....the WPC.  In comes, and I like him, Professor Harold "Bobby" Hill and he can sell ice cube to Eskimos....  The LTR concept provides TICKET SALES to the Athletic Department.  The WPC is like Ticketmaster and gets a CUT.  Having PRESOLD or a Season Ticket HOLDER pony up $$ to have the RIGHT to spend more $$....without any control on the TICKET COST is a brilliant scheme.  

    Next one are the BIG $$ FC's.  NOW, in all fairness to the WPC.....they got hamstrung in that they were NOT allowed to take DONATIONS for coaches' salaries for supplemental income.  That was a UNC BOG dictate....only as punishment for inuendo crimes....not actual crimes...committed by Jimmy V.  GOD FORBID THAT DEAN OR ROY would be subject to such restrictions.

    SO, the WPC could not comingle coaches $$ and scholarship $$....so the WPC becomes strictly SCHOLLIES ONLY.  The NC GA jumps in and declares that Out of STATE student athletes MUST pay Out of State Tuition....and NOT be granted an exemption....  THAT mucks up the budget.

    I don't think that LF was smart enough to understand the grand scheme....but he DID KNOW BB...  Bobby Purcell and the Chancellor were probably the ones working with the Centennial Commission and got the "Deals" hammered out....

    IF we built a facility, smaller on campus, it would be the same.  FC boxes.  Names on urinals.  Priority parking for Faculty Senate (you would NOT believe the amount of name calling and arguing that goes on at the Faculty Club over WHO gets reserved parking....I know...I have friends involved...)  

    You will also recall that the NEW Reynolds was supposed to have some "sustaining donations"....as in the Plaques on the wall.  That has almost ended.  There is more interest in attending political rallies for just about any cause du Jour than there is in paying $5K for a plaque.   I KNOW THIS PERSONALLY....I almost bought one...but then the tax laws changed and that is NO LONGER deductible....

    Read them sometime....there are a LOT of perfunctory ones....but the rank and file such as myself did not buy into THAT marketing scheme...

    A NEW version of Reynolds, sadly, I THINK, is just a fuzzy view of an era that will never be....we have more and more of wishing for the "Good Old Days", but in reality....time and agendas and issues and maybe some differing attitudes make that impossible...

    THE PNC is what it is....and it will be a shambles from an operating perspective if there is NOT interest in HOCKEY....we, the mighty PACK, can't even begin to carry it by ourselves....

    All the NASCAR folks that left the track when their favorite drivers retired need to get "INTO" hockey and we may have a few more years....so GO CANES should be our cry....

    You ain't gonna pay the rent on the PNC with Tractor Pulls, circuses (OPPS....that is GONE), "Cause Breakfasts", concerts, etc.....you need a steady income....regardless of whether the tickets are used.....  Read up on the "Roanoke Rapids" Entertainment Dome....if they would subdivide it and rent it out by the hour to enterprising folks that provide "services" for travelers and trucker....it MIGHT work....as the parking lot is big enough....add in a few exotic dancer shows........Look at the cost of THAT fiasco inspired by Dolly's brother....

    When I CLICKED SAVE>>>>the following popped up in my email.....a SOLICITATION from the UNIVERSITY for me to donate a portion of my estate or my current portfolio to THEM....

    I could NOT RESIST posting it.....



    Explore the benefits of Gift Planning as part of your philanthropic and estate plans!

    Students work on their senior projects in a design lab on Centennial Campus


    Through a planned gift, you can invest in the future of NC State and be part of the Think and Do the Extraordinary Campaign – the most ambitious fundraising effort in NC State history, with a goal of $1.6 billion in private support by December 2021.  Planned gifts are important in achieving the $1.6 billion goal and as of January 31, 2019, 23 percent of the gifts raised during the campaign are planned gifts – a total of $335,009,710! 

    These deferred gifts made through donors’ estate plans or life-income gifts such as charitable remainder trusts and charitable gift annuities will fund student scholarships, distinguished professorships and provide unrestricted support. Recent deferred gifts include future support for the Craft Center and the men’s basketball program among many other initiatives and priorities. 

    The campaign is transforming campus and you can be a part of the transformation through a planned gift.  Visit www.campaign.ncsu.edu/connect to read about Think and Do the Extraordinary Campaign success stories.  And to learn more about Gift Planning, please visit our website or contact our office at 919.515.5106.

  • HighstickHighstick Posts: 340PFN Referee
    ryebread said:
    Stick:  Maybe I just wax nostalgic for Reynolds, but I think the students are missing an awful lot by not having it on campus.  I’d put $$$ up for that (with no expectations on any tickets, etc.) as a way of giving back what I once had.

    I fully admit that it makes zero economic sense to do this.  Therefore NC State will play men’s basketball in the ESA until the place has to be bulldozed.  To your point, we may as well embrace it.
    I honestly wish it could be that way.   I am a product of Reynolds from 63-65 and then in 70-72 as a student.  I was still a Reynold's groupie in 72-75 as I lived and worked in Raleigh.  It's hard to me to imagine anything differently, but but, as you say, it makes zero economic sense.  On campus is not gonna happen unless something happens over on the south side of Western Blvd where there is land.  Walking to Reynolds for a game as a student isn't gonna happen.

    I have way too many memories there in Reynolds like you do...

  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 3,636PFN Referee
    I loved my Reynolds experience, but it just no longer worked for the modern era.  Perhaps we can get a MD-sized arena (ie, 14-15K) on Centennial Campus once the (Lost on I-95) Whalers leave town.

    At least it would have our proper shade of red, FFS.
  • Roo made me put on my glasses for that lengthy read.  Turn PNC into a casino, sports book, wave pool, cigar bar, pack restaurant sports bar, hooters barbershop and a frugal mcdugals on steroids.  Then build an arena on Centennial campus where I can reach out and slap the —— out of a hansbrough type from the front row as he tries to inbound the ball.  And turn the thermostat to 95, I can take it but the blues will wilt.
  • Get over it. It's all in the rearview mirror. 
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 2,519
    edited February 2019
    House lights dim on the Kay Yow Court in the Valvano Arena at Reynolds Colesium.
    A single spot bathes Joan Sloan.....the accompaniment begins softly in the background 
    She belts out the following...

    Light the corners of my mind
    Misty red tinged memories
    Of the way we were
    Shattered backboards
    David crashing to the floor
    Hugs we gave one another when he walked through the door
    For the way we were
    Can it be that it was all so simple then?
    Or has time re-written every game?
    If we had the chance to do it all again
    Tell me, would we? Could we?
    Mem'ries, may be beautiful and yet
    Games too painful to remember
    We simply choose to forget
    So it's the great wins
    We will remember
    Whenever we remember...
    The way we were...

    Lights fade....then a hologram of Everette Case & Norm Sloan with his hand on Case’s shoulder appears. Up walks Kay Yow.  When Jimmy V joins them, Kay playfully tousles his hair....

    THE WAY WE WERE......

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