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Diversions Related to COVID Craziness Syndrome that go B>A>N>G

AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 4,404
edited January 18 in Wolfpack Sports

Whitefang said...

Roo, not COVID related but reading your ammo comments. I’ve been buying what .22LR I could find in the last 6 months because, while I own quite a few firearms in various calibers, my kids and I like to plink with our 22’s at the “camp.”

I haven’t bought any that said “intermittent” but have bought brands I’ve never heard of (although I try to avoid the 32 grain bullets). And I’ve noticed a larger number of “no fires” and jams. I load my own shot shells so I know the dangers of an incomplete fire with a wad left in the barrel. However never really thought about that with a pistol or rifle. Is this “bullet stuck in the barrel” common with crappy ammo, and how concerned should I be?

Troll replied...

To the ammo subject.. I've tracked 9mm prices past several months.. Prices were starting to go down and in past 10 days or so they shot back up. Chart of prices I guess could be used as a country wide tension indicator. Just thought it was interesting observation, not intending to stroll into the politics pit.




  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 4,404

    I know folks that shoot upwards of 200 rounds per week. I probably average 250 per month or a bit more.

    Ammo and components for centerfire and shotgun shells have gone ballistic.

    I bought 22LR SV “semi target” CCI Lead about 13 months ago and paid around $0.07. Now, the sites, if they have it, are in the $0.30 range.

    5.56, more desirable than .223, as it will function in both 5.56 and .223 whereas, .223 SUPPOSEDLY is designed for ON!Y .223 is hovering around $1.00. Seen it higher and called out the gouged and got busted on the site for “ad stomping”. I see it locally on some more sane sites in the $0.75 range.

    9mm jumped to over $0.50 and has hit $0.80....but I might have seem a Triad distributor close to $1.00

    Primers are non existent and there were reports of the local shows selling them for maybe $125 per thousand. I would only buy when they were on sale in late 2019 for $30 and the deal was free shipping and NO HazMat fee. BTW...as best I can conclude from the UPS and maybe the FedEx site, there is NO HazMat fee for AMMO. It has to be securely packed and marked and labeled as ORM-D (spent many days training and being trained for DOT Haz Shipping Certified. UPS says it ships at the regular “weight/size” rate. BUT the local franchises are independently owned, so they may NOT allow or will “inflate”. A REAL UPS Service Center will inspect the packaging and supply the ORM-D placard...

    As to WF’s comments about squibs and such. I would be VERY a hesitant on 22LR. Now if you are just plinking and have a cleaning rod and a small hammer and understand the bullet removal techniques and NOT a shooting in a match, then common sense would prevail.

    As to centerfire, one should always be cognizant and NOT squeeze off the next round when the recoil or sound or “feel” is different. I have been reloading centerfire since 1968. I actually did “double charge” a 9mm in early 2019. Fortunately it was a low velocity target load and a strong, hefty 1911 SS gun. Made more noise snd the extractor was “impaired”. We managed, in the field, to get the bolt and mechanism open. Shot single fire from then on with different ammo and did a weight sort of that lot. Only ONE...but One was ugly, The other concern was NO Powder and the primer will dislodge the bullet snd then you have to extract the bullet....SOME a folks have failed to heed the “gee that sounded PUNY” rule and the gun was toast and some were severely injured.


    Treading lightly here. Politics aside. When half the county votes D and the other half votes R any the number of Pistol Permit applications or issued TREBLES in 2020 compared to 2019, I truly believe that the political persuasions are more 50/50...and if some campaign fodder equates to registration, limitations on magazines, annual FET and FET on ammo, that there will be some internal howling.

    Best I can read and decipher, the worst case numbers of firearms out there is NOW spread over a larger population....and not the shooters or collectors that are scoffing up on anything that goes bang.

    I was looking at the organization of my safe last night. It has over 8K slides from 1965 to 2004/5 when I went DSLR. It also has DW’s 1/3 of her dad’s coin collection and records and such. I toyed with getting a smaller, additional records safe and looked online. Liberty, the premier, now has a 20 week wait. Pity it is privately held...

    Will be interesting to see how campaign promises and a split Congress and the Public (polls) pan out. There were massive runs and inflated prices many years ago when there were bans on 20 and 30 round magazines....and supplies were down. I know many folks that purchased a lot of components and they prices in mid 2019 finally got them to break even...

  • SonofWilkinSonofWilkin Posts: 138

    Perry's in Wendell is about the only place I can find ammo locally. Bought 200 rounds of 556 yesterday for .85 cent a round. They had 9mm and 40 which I haven't seen around as well. FG&G has absolutely nothing went out there over the weekend waited 20 mins in line to get in and walked out empty handed. Its my understanding that they sell ammo online for double the price so they don't stock their shelves.

    Now I've been wanting to make a hunting/fishing thread on here but haven't had the time. If you want to talk about hard to find/expensive ammo. Try and find a box of 3" #3 steel shot. I've seen boxes of steel shot selling for close to $4 a shell this year absolutely insane!!! That being said if there are any duck hunters who want to walk into Jordan let me know. Only a few days left to bust as the quackers.

  • SonofWilkinSonofWilkin Posts: 138

    Need to find some sub sonic .22 if anyone has a tip on where to find some.

  • RickRick Posts: 3,247PFN Referee

    My parents are getting guns for the first time. My dad bought a .38 special revolver despite me telling him to get 9mm. A friend found two boxes at the gun show this weekend. He sent me a picture and it was insane how many people in line. Me neighbor bought her first gun also.

  • turkeydanceturkeydance Posts: 283

    Bangs and Bitcoins are not getting cheaper.

    right now might just be "the good ole days".

    i am still shooting .22LR from my Y2K stock.

  • whitefangwhitefang Posts: 229

    Appreciate the thread. Couple of comments without copying quotes:

    Roo, thanks for the advice and reminding me of the term “squib.” I’ve been a “shotgunner” most of my life, and while I’ve always owned rifles and pistols, I’ve only recently begun shooting them at a decent rate. I’ve shot thousands of times more shotgun shells than bullets and would know the difference in recoil and sound even with hearing protection of a “bad” 12 gauge round. I’ve loaded my own shells for decades and have my recipes pretty set. I’ve got 15 or 20 shotguns in my safes, but the DW thinks I’ve got 2 or 3. Even so I almost always shoot my Beretta O/U for everything. The .22 advice is very sound and concerning. With little recoil or sound it would be easier to miss a squib. My main concerns like all fathers are my sons. I gave them Ruger SR 22s for Christmas and 500 rounds of Wolf 40 grain. While I guess any ammo could have a bad round, Wolf ain’t the cheapest. I’ll warn them right away. They’re very experienced shooters, but mostly shot gunners too. I scraped up 1500 other rounds of cheap s$&! stuff I need to watch.

    I picked up a Glock 44 this past summer which I enjoy plinking with but it likes the 40 grains better. I also shoot a Ruger Mark IV tactical I got from someone who needed $150 badly. I’ve got a Ruger 10/22 rifle with a cheap scope that my Dad gave me years ago. It’s fun to plink with.

    Son of, Sportsman’s Guide has had subsonic .22 off and on, but I checked and they don’t have any tonight. But you might check them every few days. I’d love to splash some quackers on Jordan with you but alas with only 2 weekends left in the season, I’m committed to our club in Hyde Co. Maybe next season. Let’s remember to touch base around Nov.

    Rick, people are buying guns that haven’t ever thought about it before. My next door neighbor, Yankee dr. but good guy dropped by a few months ago. He said, “I know you’ve got guns. If things get bad, can I borrow one?” Now this is a guy who has never held a gun. I said sure BUT we need to practice a bit first. He hasn’t followed up, but people definitely feel the need to protect their families when things are uncertain.

  • jppackattackjppackattack Posts: 1,247

    Got me an ATI AR pistol (5.56) a couple weeks ago, 7" barrel with M-LOK and picatinny rail along the top. Now I need a decent red dot for it. Bought my son an Arsenal SAM7 for his (very expensive) Christmas present. Local gun shop (the good one in town) has a line to get in every day, doesn't matter what time of day it is.

  • turkeydanceturkeydance Posts: 283

    essentially, could we expect a huge increase in Federal Excise Taxes?

    also, mandatory insurance (like cars) regardless of when and how acquired?

    personally, i expect the excise to pass and be law.

    insurance might be a state-by-state thing.

  • whitefangwhitefang Posts: 229

    Increase in excise tax will likely be on the table. Avoiding politics as much as possible so a former prez will remain nameless, but I believe he tried to get a bill passed that diverted Pittman-Robertson Act federal excise taxes into the “general fund.” As most shooters know these taxes (11% on ammo, long guns, & archery, 10% on handguns) since its passage 80+ years ago must be used for wildlife, Hunter Ed, etc purposes.

    Dont know the figures but I suspect the last 10 years of gun and ammo sales has generated lots of $’s at 11%. An increase and another attempt at diverting of funds wouldn’t be surprising.

    Oh for the days of ammo on the shelf!

  • YogiNCYogiNC Posts: 595

    I stocked up 2 years ago on 22s primarily to be able to shoot more often. I bought the wife a Ruger LCP II .22 LR Pistol for Christmas in 2019. She had absconded with my Ruger SR22 7 years ago and I wanted it back. She loves that little pistol. For those of you with a wife with small hands and big aspirations it works. Perfect carry gun for her also since it takes up much less "room" for her diminutive frame. Most times it's in what she calls her "covid" purse.

    She can pop off 5 rounds in an instant. I've ingrained into her that shooting the first 5 quickly is more important than accurately. 5 rounds rapidly coming out of a gun is tremendously intimidating even if they don't hit the mark. By the time the 5th one comes out a perpetrator is most likely trying to find cover and you can take a quick scan of the situation before resuming fire. The more she practices it the more accurate she's become. Been doing "scenarios" I see in IDPA competition to do more than just shooting at a paper target. Pressure is the enemy of accuracy. To be able to fire quickly and accurately in high pressure "situations" you need to practice those situations. Football correlation, think safety-cornerback blitz. There are several IDPA competitions around the triangle. Find one and go have some fun while popping off caps.

    I was taught by a special forces sniper who was #3 in the world at one time. His self defense class was pretty awesome. Needless to say in the class he competes in in IDPA I've never seen him lose. He has lost on the national level but he's also won it 3 times. When he does the setups for our local competitions it becomes quite the challenging day. It's fun but at the end you feel like you've been through a ringer. Most of those though are when we have special competitions for charity and such.

  • SonofWilkinSonofWilkin Posts: 138

    Good luck in Hyde I've been hearing reports duck are there. Did a mattamaskeet hunt last year and walked away with two merge. No fun sitting in 70 degree weather.

  • whitefangwhitefang Posts: 229

    This is an interesting watch re ammo shortages if you haven’t seen it.


  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 4,404

    Today’s project was to install a small 12 w heater and controller in my safe. It is a 24 cu ft model. The desiccants are OK, but when we travel for several weeks and turn the AC really high, the safe gets very humid. Or if the humidity is high in the summer, it is hard to keep the house at 45%. I did some research and could not find a system. I spent around $80 for a reliable heater snd a super control. Will hold 45%, the recommended RH, perfectly. I have a wireless humidity monitor and tested the system. The control is simple and you only adjust the set point. The controller is prewired so it is plug and play. Pictures follow. If interested, PM me and I’ll give you the BoM and instructions. Really essential if you have your safe in a garage or basement.

  • RickRick Posts: 3,247PFN Referee

    Btw I just found out how much that .38 special ammo I paid for coat.

    It was $140 for 100 rounds. Insane

  • 1984Met1984Met Posts: 1,306

    Would reload costs be less? Of course, the initial investment of materials would mean more cost at first. But what about long term?

  • whitefangwhitefang Posts: 229

    I believe you could reload for a lot less, although I’m just a shot shell reloader, but I think primers are as rare as ammo.

    Ive been saving brass lately so would like some advice from any in here who reload.

  • 1984Met1984Met Posts: 1,306

    I would like advice too. Saving brass. Kind of hard to find 32-20 ammo right now.

  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 4,404
    edited January 24

    Here goes...

    RCBS Rock Chucker Press. $190

    9mm Carbide dies. $ 60

    Powder Scale. $100

    Powder Measure - fill cases. $100

    misc Calipers & “stuff”. $100

    Primer feeder - seater. $50

    Total. $600

    Primers WERE $35/K. Now called GOLD Pellets. $100 - $150/K or $0.125/ Round

    9mm brass. $175 per 3.5K varies. $.05. Reload maybe 12 times

    Projectiles (Bullets). 115 gr WERE $60/K. Now $90/K. Or $0.09

    Powder... use a common one. $30 / Pound 1000 / Pound or $0.03

    WERE BEFORE $0.12. Could sometimes buy 9mm for $0.15...find all day long for $0.19

    NOW. $.25. Assuming you can BUY Primers and Projectiles. Folks are selling Grandma’s China and Silver to buy at inflated prices. I saw Small Pistol Primers (9mm & 38/357J today for $100. Guy has all sizes, but is reserving the Small Pistol for a trade which will be heavily slanted in his favor. I know a little about him and he is not a speculator, but has changed directions and is moving his stash, but for a tidy profit

    Same factory 9mm 115 is in the $0.60 range.

    if you buy that press and the above items, you will have maybe 3 hours in 100 shells. If you buy a progressive press for around $2000, which will load both 9mm and 45 or 2 separate calibers, anything you can think of.....you can easily run 500 - 600 per hour. I know, I have one and it is not that difficult. You will still need around $250 in accessories such as gauges, calipers, powder scale, etc.

    Now, I spend maybe an hour or so of prep like filling primer tubes and setting up and sorting....per 1000 rounds. Easily can produce 400 rounds per hour of 9mm. I have friends that have 3 different progressive presses. One for 9mm, one for 45, one for .32. Others have separate pistol presses and one for various rifle calibers.

    A single stage press like the RCBS will load any caliber you can buy dies for.

    Hope this helps. Google some

    Here is the press and set up that I have. I have an auto vibratory case feeder. Don’t have a pick and place vibratory projectile (bullet) feeder. I work the press with my right hand and and pick and place the bullet with my right hand. If I REALLY concentrate, I can do 650-700....but I have to replenish the primers (tube feeder) and cases and bullets. Then, I sample the finished round and use a full length case gage to make sure that the shells are to spec.

    that’s it. View the videos. Like WF, I have been stuffing shells since 1968 and also shotgun shells (much faster and less tedious) since then also...

  • HighstickHighstick Posts: 452PFN Referee

    I stocked up on ammo when the prices were down. If things turn really bad, I don't expect to survive, but I will try to take as many bad guys as possible during the process.

    Got to go through the reloading info above. I've been cleaning out my attic where I'd stored my hunting gear and found a set of RCBS 7X57 dies that I'd forgotten I had. I've passed the Ruger No 1 7X57 to my son. Maybe something that he and I could learn and satisfy our handgun needs too "when and if" the supply side gets normal again.

  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 4,404

    ammo is still out there....if you look. assuming, you are not going Buffalo hunting like they did out west in the 1800's, you should find some. Might be a bit pricey, but hey, in a Single Shot....how many rounds per minute do you plan to fire?

    Here is a site that has ammo and reloading supplies. Scroll down to the bottom for the FOR SALE. There is a forum for AMMO and Reloading Supplies.

    You will need a press and primers and powder. Since you would be loading small quantities, Lee makes a "Measure" kit with graduated "scoops". That is a lot cheaper than a powder measure. If you found a used powder scale, then you would scoop or measure the volume and put it in the powder scale pan and then add or remove to get within 0.1 Grain (not GRAM). Then your loads will be far more accurate than factory and you can then fine tune the load based on the velocity and bullet and be a tack driver.

    Good luck....wonderful gun. Just never was a SS rifle person...


  • RickRick Posts: 3,247PFN Referee

    I have some .40 cal I would sell depending on what the offer is.

  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 4,404

    Use the link and you can see what they are going for. Armslist is a PayWall site, and the folks there (hope I am not stepping on any toes) seem to "value" their ammo a bit more than CFF...maybe 15 - 20% more.

    FWIW. You CAN ship ammo, if you go to a UPS Service Location (like the North Raleigh (Atlantic Avenue) one. You have to really pack it and declare it as AMMO...NOT PRIMERS. It will be a DOT HazMat ORM-D. UPS will placard it.

    BUT, it ships (or did) at the regular Freight Rate or ground rate. If you ship Primers, there is a HazMat packaging fee....and you have to be a certified DOT "packer/labeler". My certification has expired as it is an annual two day training. That will run about $30 more for the special handling.

    NOW you know...

  • HighstickHighstick Posts: 452PFN Referee

    I killed a lot of deer with that rifle. You could reload that thing faster than you'd believe possible, but it shot so good, a second shot was rare. I've also got a 30:06 Remington Model 700 and it was, and still is a tack driver! Also have a 25:06 that I've never fired, but I need to do that when ammo price drops somewhat. I was so busy acquiring pistol and 223 ammo for my Mini 14 that I never stocked up on the 25:06. I'd really like to handload so 45LC for the Vacquero that I picked up this past year...Buying guns is addictive!!

  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 4,404

    Tell me (or DW) about it. I jointed a local GC and wanted to improve my Skeet. Ordered a new gun...bought 10 cases of shotshells (combo of 12 and 20). Weather got hot...so I slacked off and shot pistol in the shaded area. BINGO. HOOKED>

    I just sold my 12 Gauge reloading press and components today. I have enough factory 12 Gauge for 2 rounds per week for the next 6 months. Kept the 12 Gauge press. The 12 banger, even with a Remington 11-87 still pounds my old body too much. God FORBID that I still have my Wingmaster Pump with the SKEET barrel.

    Guns be addictive. Since early 2017, I have ridded myself of almost all of my hunting long guns, but I still have the same number of triggers....as I purchased a plethora of pistols....and have sold several of them in my quest for the PERFECT GUN...

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