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End of college athletics or beginning of madness?

RickRick Posts: 3,407PFN Referee


NCAA to all transfers to play immediately. Every season is going to be a madhouse of players transferring around. It's already hard to get emotionally attached to players as it is. You are going to see players come and go constantly.

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Comments

  • TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 3,899PFN Referee

    Wow, yeah removing incentive for NOT transferring.. it seems it's going to be pretty wild.

  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 3,298PFN Referee
    edited December 2020

    Meh.... Let them transfer without restriction and sitting. If the schools can fire coaches at any time (which they can and do), and the coaches can up and leave for better jobs (which they'd do in a second), why are the players limited in movement? A normal student can transfer at any time, regardless of whether they're on an academic scholarship.

    The issue is that college sports are minor leagues for football and basketball. If both had functioning minor leagues and the NCAA sports rolled back to what they are for baseball or the Olympic sports, then things would take care of themselves. Until then, let the kids get what they can.

  • Vawolf82Vawolf82 Posts: 1,404PFN Referee

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out with coaching firing decisions. A bad coach will be shedding players like water off a duck.

  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 5,423PFN Referee

    I'm with Rye on this one. But I bet it plays out less dramatically than we expect/fear.

    Moving is still a giant pain in the ass.

  • Vawolf82Vawolf82 Posts: 1,404PFN Referee

    I just listened to Scott Wood's interview with Corch. They both talked about what it was like when the coach that recruited them got fired. Given that same scenario with no incentive to stay, a lot of players will bolt.

  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 5,423PFN Referee

    I have absolutely zero problem with making the kids NOT feel shackled during/after a coaching change. That's really only fair play.

  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 3,298PFN Referee

    Yep, particularly given the players commit to a coach and not a school. Schools should realize that pulling that trigger comes with consequences, much as it does when management changes are made in business "in real life."

    The schools have been feeding off of an unbalanced labor relationship for way too long......

  • I'm of the opinion that if you have a good culture and competent coaching in place, you will reap the rewards of this change. I personally feel very good on both accounts regarding our FB, MBB, and WBB programs. So I think it could work to our advantage. Some programs will continue to add the $ factor to lure players and that won't change - we're never going to be able to compete on that front even if we wanted to. For schools that maybe have somewhat of a name brand but have bad culture and/or incompetent coaching and have been perfectly fine with it, they will find out soon enough that ain't gonna work.

  • 4in124in12 Posts: 253

    Let's say a coach recruits a bunch of three star guys, over-achieves, and has a good few years. Now the program is more attractive and some four star guys want to transfer in. Do you start shedding the guys that have contributed the last few years to make room on the bench?

  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 3,298PFN Referee

    You'll just nudge them out the door.


    I tend to agree with JP's opinion. If you build the right culture, you can still get and maintain players. It's just like any other employment. You don't have to always pay top dollar. You have to have the most attractive total package, and that varies from human to human.


    Cory Booker (and 3 other senators) have submitted what seems to be some "common sense" legislation with respect to the NCAA. It will clearly face stiff opposition.

  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 4,186

    If you think money rules the day in college athletics now, you ain’t seen nothing yet. Guys that have live reps against the kind of competition they will face in your program become more valuable than HS players pretty quick once this system gets rolling. State and Wake will take freshmen and run audition squads for the big boys. The G5 schools are going to be decimated even worse.

  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 3,298PFN Referee

    State and Wake have no shot at winning big in the large revenue sports (football and basketball). The deck's been stacked for while.

    I honestly don't really care any more......

  • Dorothy:

    My! People come and go so quickly here!

  • For basketball — I hope I’m wrong, but I predict this will reduce parity and manifest in a way such that the blue bloods create perennial superstar teams without the occasional reloading period. Think of an NBA with annual contracts, where the best players transfer to the preferred destination (Duke/UNC) to create Fab 5 monster teams. Those programs won’t have to endure the false positive recruiting risk which results in reloading years providing schools like State a brief respite to be relevant in the conference.

    On the flip side, it will likely encourage the 8th or 9th best player at the blue bloods to transfer to mediocre programs where they would becomes a starter, which happens now in modest numbers. Though obviously, absent player development that exceeds raw talent of the school they just departed, this won’t result in parity but rather create layers, whereby the blue bloods are dominant, the second tier are really good and the lower tier Power 5 are bleh. The non Power 5 will become obsolete. I think the lack of parity and stratification will resemble college football, which has superstar teams (because the scholarship limit is too high), then solid top 25 programs and then the bottom rung of Power 5, which themselves dominate non Power 5.

    It should also benefit the likes of good coaches for two reasons. Among the top layer, you will have more parity such that Kentucky won’t have the ability to out-recruit for several years trapping top talent that could otherwise transfer and be unleashed at UVA for example. Also good coaches like Tony B will benefit because recruiting college players will be easier for them to market their acumen relative to 15-17 year old kids who are more deferential to their handlers and the marketing gimmicks of slime balls like Calipari.

    For football — I think this hurts two schools. Clemson and Alabama, who enjoy a vice like grip on recruiting. Because 85 scholarships is too high, they lock in NFL talent at the 2 and 3 deep that creates a ridiculous edge in talent. These future stars would start at most other schools immediately but they wait their turn for a year or two b/c of the 1-year penalty. Now they see a carrot to start immediately at second tier schools like Auburn. The stratification remains but the layers become deeper at the top where you may actually have 5-8 teams that are closer in talent than the top 2 with an occasional UGA/Ohio Stats moment.

    Pros/cons but I don’t think it helps basketball. Football needs to reduce schollies to create parity, which won’t happen.

  • 1984Met1984Met Posts: 1,467

    I'm inclined against their proposed legislation. Would rather the colleges get out of the business of being the NFL/NBA minor leagues.

    As far as transfers playing immediately, can't say I'm for or against it as I can see both sides of the argument. Would rather the player attend a college for his/her preferred major. But, that goes back to my idea that the colleges get out of the business of being the NFL/NBA minor leagues.

    Of course, if MLB keeps it up, there won't be any minor league baseball to speak of either. Then we're back to the colleges. :-( As much money that is in the NBA, NFL, and MLB, you would think they would promote their minor league system (not college ball, but true minor leagues).

  • RickRick Posts: 3,407PFN Referee

    Why do you think there will not be a minor league?

  • Brian Kelly ACC coach of the year, and ND is not a full-fledged member of the ACC...about right for 2020...Roll Tide.

  • 1984Met1984Met Posts: 1,467
    edited December 2020

    Rick,

    Not that there won't be a minor league. But, MLB has already downsized the minor leagues just this year. It seems to be a trend on their part to save money. Of course, a lot of that has to do with modern society -- I can't see how the league can support a minor league system of A, AA, and AAA teams, plus rookie leagues, etc., in many locations. Just in my home county, textile mills had 3 or 4 teams in the decade before I was born (okay, the 1950s). Now, the closest minor league teams are in Greensboro and Winston-Salem.

    By the way, I really feel for the college players. What should be a wonderful experience of getting a good college education paid in part or in full has turned into a debate -- a debate about money and whether the player should move around to help leverage their future in the next league. I don't know how any of that (moving around, etc.) can help any of the athletes who are on or below the bubble to make it to the pros. It would seem to me that taking full advantage of their scholarship should be best. I would say that about the only thing I liked in the proposed legislation was that scholarships should cover a period of 4 or 5 years (not sure exactly the proposal). The NCAA should put their two cents into that now for the student-athletes.

  • RickRick Posts: 3,407PFN Referee

    Gotcha 1984, makes sense. I never understood why they had so many minor league teams anyway.

  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 2,820

    Interesting thread here...


    Regarding college athletics being a de facto “minor league” for the various sports leagues, the best thing that college leadership could do is allow potential prospects to retain college eligibility after being drafted. This would (1) increase the value of seniors in the draft (2) it would allow kids making poor choices a second chance (3) provide needed leverage to the college athlete.

    Regarding “parity” and a playoff. Here’s the thing - the more games you add to a season, the more likely it is that the most talented teams win. NC State will likely never have more talent than Bama, but they have a better chance of running the table in the ACC and winning one game vs Bama than they do running the table in the ACC, beating Georgia or Clemson or LSU or Oklahoma or tOSU or USC, then beating Alabama the next week. But before we write off our future entirely, let’s remember that we missed a chip shot field goal @ Clemson in 2016 and then blew a second half lead in 2017. Our 2002 team basically collapsed so they didn’t go undefeated. Like other underdogs, we just have to be better.


    Finally football vs basketball. The 1 and done rule has actually hurt the blue bloods in college basketball. The game’s elite programs have to basically retool their roster every year. This allows smart programs to gain an advantage with more physically and mentally mature players. Unfortunately, State played its hand badly by hiring Lowe and Gott. Two guys who chased elite talent and weren’t great at developing the talent they did have. I think with Keatts, we have a guy who understands State’s place in the pecking order and seeks to leverage the advantages we do have.


    In football, the best thing a program like NC State can do is develop talent over 3-5 years. DD actually had incredibly talented teams 2016-2018. This year, it’s been pretty obvious we have more talent than half the league. The problem is, of course, the top 1/3. However, if we play our cards right, in 2021 and 2022, we will again be able to compete with top 1/3. Hopefully, this time around, we will capitalize on those rare opportunities.

  • TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 3,899PFN Referee
    edited December 2020

    I think it's going to make the CBB landscape that much more ugly and cut throat. The recruiting will never end.. even after players are signed. The Steph Curry's of the game will not remain at the Davidson type schools. Seemingly it will lead to fewer Cinderella's, one of the most intriguing things about CBB. The rich (blue schools) will certainly get richer.

  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 3,298PFN Referee

    Recruiting never stops now.... Lest we forget the Gott / Graham tampering allegations.

    I agree that the one and done has hurt Duke and Kentucky. K forgot that it was the upperclassman who wanted to win for the program enough to check their egos for some freshman mercenaries that won him his last title as much or more than the 3 superstar freshman he brought in. Mercenary armies are rarely ever the answer.

    The amazing thing to me is Roy’s cheating light blue machine. Kids stay at UNC instead of taking obvious pro money, and do so in spite of no demonstrative evidence that it helps their draft status or long term pro trajectory. All one can seemingly logically assume is that they’re paid more to be at UNC.

    KK would take burger boys if he could get them. We just have NCAA clouds and are trying to play it about as clean as you can in big time ball. His “we don’t have MCAAs but we have Manny” quote is a call for the elite players.

  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 5,423PFN Referee

    Keatts is gonna start putting kids (like Bates) into The Association, which will help in recruiting (high school and transfer).

  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 3,298PFN Referee

    I agree, both that Bates will play in the pros and that recruiting will pick up.

  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 4,186

    Bates is an ideal candidate for the D League. He needs reps and dedicated professional coaching to round out / polish his skill set. He can make 2-3 times the progress towards a full time slot in the NBA by spending a year in the D League as he can on a college campus. It will boil down to how much he wants a college degree as to how long he stays.

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