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The rumblings in our cities

ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,144PFN Referee
edited June 4 in Wolfpack Sports
*** POLICY NOTE FROM TROLL***
Folks I was a rats ass hair away from deleting this thread.. and if I'm being truthful I probably will end up closing it.  Or any of the other mods can close this if they feel the need to for any excuse.  Real dialog on this kind of issue the country is facing can be a positive thing but is nearly impossible, even with family and those we love, so I have little faith it will be achieved in a public forum.  Even among you all fine gents.
For the time being please be constructive, civil, and polite as a MF'er to one another in here.  And here's a hint: Please don't discuss politicians anymore in here either.  That's not productive.
*** END POLICY NOTE***

As a community we requested to break this out from the COVID19 thread, so that is what I am doing.  I believe these two things to be intertwined. If you take 15-28 year old males, send them home, take their jobs and leave them without income, hope or any sort of end game, you have a powder keg looking for a match.

You pair that with a disease that has disproportionately hit the African American and Latino communities — both in health impact as well as in economic impact.  That further amplifies things.

Then you combine that with a back drop where one community is disproportionately impacted by the Legal justice system.  From the NY Times:


  • Incarceration rates for black men are about twice as high as those of Hispanic men, five times higher than those of white men and at least 25 times higher than those of black women, Hispanic women or white women.
  • When the government last counted how many black men had ever spent time in state or federal prison — in 2001 — the share was 17 percent. Today, it’s likely closer to 20 percent (and this number doesn’t include people who’ve spent time in jail without being sentenced to prison). The comparable number for white men is about 3 percent.

The situation with George Flynn was the match. The predictable is now happening.  It greatly saddens me.

I believe that we as a community can discuss this maturely.  TaT may decide otherwise.  It is his board, and if that is not the case I am sure he will swiftly moderate.

«1

Comments

  • Fastback68Fastback68 Posts: 771
    We hired a guy for some mechanical and electrical work.  I was able to shoot the bull with him and get a feel for his background.  It didn’t bother us that his work schedule seemed sporadic because the work was not pressing.  Finally, the man apologized one day about not being onsite more.  I thought it was due to the crazy rain we have had to date.  No, this guy had been driving back and forth to Raleigh to join the Open Up protests long before Floyd/Minneapolis.  Educated, well traveled, made a goog living and 60 years old.  I agree with the 15-28 age group and the rumblings.  The overall discourse outside of Minnesota runs across the entire age spectrum.  I saw way more 60 and up patrons at the restaurants we sat down in over the last two weeks.  This post isn’t on point regarding the thread topic.  Just on observation on the breath of dry powder and not all of it explosive.
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,144PFN Referee
    edited June 4

    I am incredibly centrist in my view and don’t like either party that dominates US politics.  During this pandemic I have bitten my tongue on information that I have received from inside the White House, and inside the Department of USA’s Pandemic Response.  It is not second/third hand.  It is from people directly on the front line, shaping the policy, and is about the views of certain leaders. It has not seemed constructive to share this despite being incredibly damning. I have wanted to focus on moving forward.  What has been done has been done and the reality is where we are today.. 

    Those who would want to believe would believe.  Those who would not would suggest it represents something akin to fake news.  No minds would likely be changed because these things did not happen in public where people could judge for themselves.

    I write this post on the backdrop of something that was public and cannot be ignored:


    I am sure we will have some defending the action that drew this level of criticism.  It is not defensible, nor are the actions of the DOJ that facilitated it.  

    There is a very bad man running the country, who uses divisive, extremist and authoritarian approaches to doing so.  His behavior here is consistent with the events I am not speaking of. 

    Democracy is at risk.    We must stop defending and spinning this man’s actions when they are obviously toxic.  Enough is enough. And I say this as someone who doesn’t like the “other side” all that much either.  


  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,144PFN Referee
    Let me be clear.  I do not condone violence and destruction.  The answer for violence is almost never violence.  This case is an example.  But there is violence at the heart of this on both sides, and that violence has been happening long before there was any lockdown/COVID19.  Two wrongs do not make a right.  Violence is not right here.

    But there are legitimate and real reason why people are angered.  Their anger should not be ignored.
  • GasHouseGangstaGasHouseGangsta Posts: 468
    Dangerous indeed. We're not really talking ideological or political differences here. We're talking fundamentally dangerous. There are always enough sycophants and ball sniffers out there willing to look the other way or suck up.
  • WulfpackWulfpack Posts: 2,243
    The military should not be used against its people unless the circumstances are extreme. I know he has backed off that, but that just shows you how reckless he is. 
  • SamIamSamIam Posts: 486
    Any of you should take the time to log into the FBI website, specifically the FBIUCR, Uniform Crime Report.  There you will find statistics, not tactics.  Minorities are obviously minority, they are also the minority of which race killed by law enforcement.  A steady trend since 2015.  The narrative of systematic race issues within law enforcement is absolutely false, at least according the statistics provided by the federal bureau of investigations.  No one can present facts anymore, it's all about your political beliefs and even worse, your strive and desire to continue hip and popular social media posts. 

    Where the hell are the silent protests, the energy spent discussing the absolutely horrific violent crime rates and violent crimes in every single major and minor city within the united states of america.  In Chicago alone thousands of minorities kill other minorities monthly.

    Ahmud Arbrey.  Any of you without googling know who he is?  This man's death was one that called for immediate protests, i may would even support burning the district attorneys office there who never charged the two red necks that murdered him until it became public knowledge.  

    Lastly, those of you who disagree with the military being called into to assist in times like these.  Why is it acceptable to you to allow mobs of violent pieces of crap to destroy tax paying business owners properties.  Why is ok for your families to potentially be caught in a street overtaken by these same people?  When I see my local law enforcement failing to protect life and property due to resources, man power I want and god d*mn expect somone to come in and restore order.  
  • GasHouseGangstaGasHouseGangsta Posts: 468
    edited June 4
    Sam, the question is not one of total quantity. It is one of justice or injustice. Anyone killed unjustly is a problem. The question of military involvement is also not about politics. It asks, was it necessary? Is it necessary? Just because state or local law enforcement might have been better utilized--and I would agree with that assertion based on my own direct observations in NC--doesn't mean you call in the military. That is a direct affront, as Mattis rightly calls out, to constitutional law and civil society
  • WulfpackWulfpack Posts: 2,243
    Law enforcement has said it is absoletely NOT necessary at this time, and that it will only fuel the violence and destruction. Exhaust all options before resorting to the military. Most protests are peaceful. 

    The stunt he pulled a couple days ago posing in front of the church was wholly unacceptable. You cannot forcefully move peaceful protesters who had no idea what was happening. They weren’t even told why they were being bulldozed. If that isn’t un-American then I do not know what is. 
  • freshmanin83freshmanin83 Posts: 1,557PFN Referee
    edited June 4
    Targeting police officers for harm and death, rioting, stealing, burning, destroying and defacing public property including Churches, if that isn't un-American then I do not know what is. 


    I agree that using the military option should not be the first response but threatening to use it to get Mayors, Governors or whoever to protect people and property is smart imo. Setting fire to buildings with people including children inside and then trying to stop emergency services from helping the people inside that building is unacceptable to me. 
  • WulfpackWulfpack Posts: 2,243
    Targeting police officers for harm and death, rioting, stealing, burning, destroying and defacing public property including Churches, if that isn't un-American then I do not know what is. 


    I agree that using the military option should not be the first response but threatening to use it to get Mayors, Governors or whoever to protect people and property is smart imo. Setting fire to buildings with people including children inside and then trying to stop emergency services from helping the people inside that building is unacceptable to me. 
    Except the people that were bulldozed weren’t do anything wrong and had every right to be where they were. That was a stupid political stunt that served no purpose. 
  • freshmanin83freshmanin83 Posts: 1,557PFN Referee
    Democracy is at risk and it is not from the so called bad man running the country. There is a lot of toxicity going around and it is putting our democracy at risk with the continual lies and fear mongering that is put forth to try and tear our country apart and overturn legitimate elections. Deliberately trying to set race or income or anything else that can be used to put people into groups and set us against each other is a favorite tactic and seems to be working at least to some degree. 
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 2,630
    edited June 4
    OK....you guys probably know my views....and I doubt that this is not unexpected.  Some want "Citations"....  a Senior at State during those riots.  I have friends that were in high school all over the country as well as slightly older.  For the most part, all of them say that they have a greater fear of today's violence than they did in 1968. 

    GOOGLING.....

    The King assassination riots, also known as the Holy Week Uprising, was a wave of civil disturbance which swept the United States following the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. on April 4, 1968.
    ...
    King assassination riots
    Death(s)40+
    Injuries2,500+
    Arrested15,000+
    9 more rows

    King assassination riots - Wikipedia

    BEFORE you start to CLICK....read this.  NOTE how it was handled in 1968 and what the REAL Leaders did back then.....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_assassination_riots

    Now, how many of you recall 'The Great Society" that was passed right after JFK was killed and the country needed some "Unity" as well as to disperse the rumor of an "Intelligence" failure. 

    How many have bothered to read the unclassified and released documents about how the AG (Bobby) and the Prez (John) used the FBI and J. Edgar Hoover to "keep tabs on MLK" and to make sure that he did not get to powerful.  Dr. King had feet of clay.  There are legitimate (some were later forged) recordings and accounts of his "Kennedy Like Behavior" with ladies in his entourage.  Wonder why #MeToo doesn't know that?

    The Great Society and the Watts riots were SUPPOSED to solve the problem.  Pour or dump money into the minority neighborhoods and all would be well.  Change the employment and college admission standards and minorities would rise above their underprivileged backgrounds and become president and politicians and Supreme Court Justices.  They have....to some extent. 

    I was in Raleigh.  I saw where the rioters were looting.  It was spontaneous.  They were burning down the resources or the infrastructure that was built specifically for them.  They were also rioting and looting (Watts) the merchants that provided them with their needs. 

    Over the years, we have come a long way.  Now, that is NOT enough for some.  I DO understand that. 

    I cited an FBI crime report....prepared and approved by the infamous Patriarch of LEO, James Comey.  It is not that damning.  It is in the OTHER thread that we shut down....

    If you bother to read the Wiki on the MKL riots, it talks about having Governors and Mayors that went into the community and actually got involved and defused situations.

    Today, and some will dispute this, the George Floyd incident was the "OK....PUSH THE BUTTON" scenario.  I guess that some do NOT believe all the independent news reports from TV stations all over the country about having piles of bricks and other weapons "deployed".  Some do not believe the reports of folks "passing out bottles of gasoline".  If you listened to the OpenMgHZ website on Monday evening, there were armed (AR) individuals strolling around downtown Raleigh after the curfew.  There was a call from a citizen about an individual passing out stuff....dressed in black...with a backpack.  This is the actual radio chatter from the NC Central Band which was the Raleigh PD and other LEO that night.

    We elected a minority president.  First thing he did was to have a Beer Garden Summit.  We had TWO minority AG's.  One of them set up a gun running scheme.  The other met with her Ex Boss to intercede in his wife's little misadventures when she was Secretary of State.  

    There is a Tweet from Chris Palmer where he posts a photo of a burning building and the BURN THAT MF DOWN comment.  BTW...the building was a just COMPLETED GYMN or Community Center in MN (I think....memory)  Three days later, he and his buddies are calling for Police Protection as the rioters are in one of the nearby, posh (mostly WHITE) gated communities and saying...."Where are the COPS?"

    The Mayor of NYC says that we don't need to send in ARMED (with AMMO) troops and that he has it under control.  We hire COPS to enforce the laws.  Some of them are bad apples.  No one ever comments on the graft and corruption that exists when officers and such (black and white) accept bribes or other favors and look the other way.  

    There were 50 or so LEO killed in 2019.  How many MINORITIES were killed by Cops?

      
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

    I would ALSO ask you to think back and THEN equate the above to the Michael Brown incident.  Even Loretta Lynch and the DOJ could NOT find any evidence of racial or other provocation in his death.  They WERE motivated to find the officer guilty of bias....instead they found him guilty of preserving his life.  Michael Brown was a person that was a repeat felon.  He was acting strangely and in an aggressive manor.  The officer was dispatched.  Michael Brown would not comply and the officer was in fear of his life and the suspect was trying to get "the OFFICER's" Gun.  

    All the reports and newspaper articles quoted "sources".  During the Federal (as well as the local and State) inquiries, the "sources" were found.  Some had just "Fabricated" their stories.  The individuals that actually witnessed the shooting and corroberated the officer's accounts were threatened and harrassed and some were actually put into protective custody.  The Michael Brown incident impacted LEO in that when trying to do their sworn and lawful duty and also exercising common sense....they were now the BAD GUYS.  It is documented that the MBS has probably exercerbated the attitudes of some LEO.

    I listened to the pressers.  Mayor DeBlascio  SHOULD have sent in a cadre of Social Workers.  We hire COPS to enforce the LAW.  We do NOT hire them to solve the Socio-Economic ills of their "beats".

    I do NOT agree with some of the comments made by a LOT of LEADERS.....and that includes our president.  I have read the WaPo article comparing LBJ's handling of the MLK riots to President Trumps.  However, LBJ was not reacting to organized ANTIFA terror plans and such.  He was reacting to the situation at hand and the media also did not become an adversary.

    Where does this all go...?  I don't know.  I DO think that the ANTIFA organization is bent on influencing the fall election.  Their planning was coordinated.  The number of cops shot AFTER the Michael Brown incident got little publicity.  It was downplayed by the press.  BUT, the rank and file cops got the message.  They are more on edge.  They have higher mental stress issues.  They are depressed.  They are committing suicide.

    Am I the ONLY one here that has friends that are emergency responders or LEO or the only one that has friends that have children (NCSU Grads) that are LEO or Parole Officers or such?  Have any of you actually talked to them about what is going on....or have you not talked to them in the past few years and see the concern that they have for their loved ones that are in LEO?  I guess that being a shooter and also reaching out to a large circle that I maybe have a biased view.  There is MORE fear today of personal harm than ever before.  Look at the handgun and firearms checks and purchases.  I know folks that used to kid me about how many guns I had and ask DW when she was gonna put her foot down.  NOW, these same folks are seeking advice on WHAT to buy.  Many voted for some lady in 2016 and are now a bit concerned with the motives of the past administration to influence her victory....and are questioning the merits of the perceived foe this fall...."OK, so I grabbed her $%$# once....That was a long time ago..." guy....

    SO....who do you blame?  There is a group of "protesters" that recently got headlines in Raleigh calling for the removal of the Black Female PRD Chief.  Why.....she sent in the cops to protect downtown Raleigh.  One of the VERY progressive editors of the N&O, when her building was being pelted by the "Pile of Bricks" that appeared on Thursday night wanted to know..."Where are the COPS....these people are out of control".  Then the Raleigh City Council discussed whether to have a SPECIAL report prepared immediately....taking folks away from the job at hand.  This is a political ploy.....pure and simple.....

    SO....if you think that the Police are the problem.....then what is the solution?  Do you agree with the revolving "No Bail Required" laws passed by the NY Legislature?

    I would also fling a very racially charged bombshell.  WAKE UP.  What PARTY and WHAT RACE control MOST of the cities where there is violence?  Maybe that party does NOT want to lose their "You are BLACK....you are GONNA vote for me" power over their constituents....

    That is my take.....IF you can sort out the (trail of MONEY and POWER) levels....then I see a coordinated effort by a well organized (and probably well funded) Group that wants to "stir up trouble".  BTW....ANTIFA may be getting a bad rap.  There are reports of some "White Supremists" causing trouble.  BUT, when the riots commence, it is HARD to figure out WHO started the mob violence and what their agenda was and who hurled the first brick.

    Did the press report that an OFF DUTY Garner Policeman was flagged down going home at the end of his shift and rolled down the window to help a group and they started beating him with bricks?  The local LEO know him.  THEY realize that THEY are the ones under assault. 

    Do you NOT remember our own NC State Grad.  Charles Ainsworth.  He and partner answered a call and walked toward a car and he got shot, with a STOLEN .45 in the neck and face and head....  How many donated to his GoFundMe site?

    https://www.witn.com/content/news/Raleigh-Police-Officer-shot-in-the-face-504136771.html

    Maybe the Mayors (and Governors) ought to read the Wiki.  Maybe they ought to ask for funding for a trained SOCIAL Worker or Advocate to be in every squad car...  

    We got enough "Social Sciences" grads that can't get jobs coming out of colleges....put them to work....


  • TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 2,632PFN Referee
    edited June 4
    *** POLICY NOTE FROM TROLL***

    Folks I was a rats ass hair away from deleting this thread.. and if I'm being truthful I probably will end up closing it.  Or any of the other mods can close this if they feel the need to for any excuse.  Real dialog on this kind of issue the country is facing can be a positive thing but is nearly impossible, even with family and those we love, so I have little faith it will be achieved in a public forum.  Even among you all fine gents.

    For the time being please be constructive, civil, and polite as a MF'er to one another in here.  And here's a hint: Please don't discuss politicians anymore in here either.  That's not productive.
  • GasHouseGangstaGasHouseGangsta Posts: 468
    edited June 4
    Oversimplification and lumping in all protesters or rioters, and police response, for that matter, is a disservice to debate and understanding. The point that more whites are killed annually by police since FBI began tracking, not that long ago, also isn't really germane to the debate, even though it's often cited. A more poignant question would be, of those killed, how many resisted? How many were wrongly targeted or arrested? How many times was the amount of force disproportionate to the alleged crime committed? If you don't understand why there's a higher level of sensitivity to this among African-American citizens and why its possibly covered more by the press, than I'm not sure there's a good starting point to begin discussion.

    Peaceful assembly and demonstration and speech is a constitutional right. When property and life and limb are threatened, there are already applicable laws in place to handle those.

    I suspect some of the LEOs and local governments weren't prepared to handle the protests amidst the pandemic. Some of our locally elected leaders in NC arguably waited too long to adopt curfews and there was mismanagement. Raleigh represents some unusual challenges, in that State Government property is the responsibility of Capitol City Police, not Raleigh PD, but there are often coordinated preparations and responses. That coordination appears to have been a problem. That doesn't mean MPs or active duty military are needed.

    It's also highly unlikely our president understands the theological differences found in mainstream or offshoot Episcopal churches and Southern Baptist churches or other evangelicals. He might have gone to another church at a different time otherwise.
  • freshmanin83freshmanin83 Posts: 1,557PFN Referee
    edited June 4
    I think the USA like every other country in the world has problems. I would like to see all of the people in the USA do as well as they can. I wish it for the world at large as well. In general I think that most people that hold different views than I do about what is happening in our country, why it is happening and how to best address these issues are good people that want the best for people too. I don't hate you when I disagree with you in fact I love you and want the best for you, your family and your friends. 

    I am not perfect and have many faults that I try and work on but find I need to do better but I try and start with loving people and wanting the best for them. 

    My first thought is, (I admit I am still learning here) I love you.
  • Remember that the seminal moment in the creation of this nation was, for all intents and purposes, a riot with major destruction of property.  I'm sharing a post from Jim Wright (http://www.stonekettle.com/) which I think is appropriate:

    People felt they were oppressed.

    They were treated as second class citizens.

    They were imprisoned without trial.

    Their property was taken without justification.

    They were daily abused and even murdered by law enforcement without appeal or recourse.

    So, naturally, they protested this injustice.

    They petitioned the government. They sent representatives to plead their case. They appealed to the law, to the public, to the powerful. To God.

    Their protests fell on deaf ears.

    Those in power ignored their complaints.

    So they protested LOUDER.

    There was civil unrest, marches, petitions to the government.

    Those in power didn't care about justice, the powerful never do. They refused to listen. To change. This went on for years, generations.

    Arrests, murders, injustice increased.

    And so, naturally, the people resorted to violence because it was the only avenue the powerful had left them. They burned businesses, destroyed property, rioted in the streets, and took up arms.

    It could have stopped there.

    Those in power could have listened, could have reached an accommodation in good faith, could have respected life and liberty and created a more equitable and fair society.

    But, of course, they didn't.

    The powerful never do.

    And so, finally, it came down violence on a mass scale. Tens of thousands dead. Billions in property lost...

    What?

    Oh.

    Heh heh. I see.

    You thought I was talking about Minneapolis?

    No, I was talking about the American Revolution.

    Funny, that. Isn't it?

    Funny how when America's white ancestors rose up in violence against oppression and tyranny, when THEY destroyed millions in property and business, when they marched in protest, when they took up arms against authority, when they demanded justice, they were patriots.

    Yes, funny indeed.


  • RickRick Posts: 2,269PFN Referee
    I think the USA like every other country in the world has problems. I would like to see all of the people in the USA do as well as they can. I wish it for the world at large as well. In general I think that most people that hold different views than I do about what is happening in our country, why it is happening and how to best address these issues are good people that want the best for people too. I don't hate you when I disagree with you in fact I love you and want the best for you, your family and your friends. 

    I am not perfect and have many faults that I try and work on but find I need to do better but I try and start with loving people and wanting the best for them. 

    My first thought is, (I admit I am still learning here) I love you.

    This is a great post. 
    I think most people (and I bet 100% of this site) want what is best for the US and its citizens but disagree on how best to accomplish that. I think if we keep that in mind while posting it will keep this topic civil (as it has been so far).

    Personally, I do not like to discuss politics any longer. It is just so divisive and people so easily take things wrong. 
  • RickRick Posts: 2,269PFN Referee
    Remember that the seminal moment in the creation of this nation was, for all intents and purposes, a riot with major destruction of property.  I'm sharing a post from Jim Wright (http://www.stonekettle.com/) which I think is appropriate:

    People felt they were oppressed.

    They were treated as second class citizens.

    They were imprisoned without trial.

    Their property was taken without justification.

    They were daily abused and even murdered by law enforcement without appeal or recourse.

    So, naturally, they protested this injustice.

    They petitioned the government. They sent representatives to plead their case. They appealed to the law, to the public, to the powerful. To God.

    Their protests fell on deaf ears.

    Those in power ignored their complaints.

    So they protested LOUDER.

    There was civil unrest, marches, petitions to the government.

    Those in power didn't care about justice, the powerful never do. They refused to listen. To change. This went on for years, generations.

    Arrests, murders, injustice increased.

    And so, naturally, the people resorted to violence because it was the only avenue the powerful had left them. They burned businesses, destroyed property, rioted in the streets, and took up arms.

    It could have stopped there.

    Those in power could have listened, could have reached an accommodation in good faith, could have respected life and liberty and created a more equitable and fair society.

    But, of course, they didn't.

    The powerful never do.

    And so, finally, it came down violence on a mass scale. Tens of thousands dead. Billions in property lost...

    What?

    Oh.

    Heh heh. I see.

    You thought I was talking about Minneapolis?

    No, I was talking about the American Revolution.

    Funny, that. Isn't it?

    Funny how when America's white ancestors rose up in violence against oppression and tyranny, when THEY destroyed millions in property and business, when they marched in protest, when they took up arms against authority, when they demanded justice, they were patriots.

    Yes, funny indeed.



    IMO comparisons like this are not very useful and more divisive than helpful in terms of discussion. The two events are not really comparable. 
  • GasHouseGangstaGasHouseGangsta Posts: 468
    It is often lost, but of all of Jesus's teachings, love is the most important for the Biblically inclined.
  • Pack78Pack78 Posts: 373
    ^A lesson that Judas (and many others) missed...
  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 1,589
    Pack78 said:
    ^A lesson that Judas (and many others) missed...
    There’s no evidence that Judas didn’t love Jesus. He was so distraught by what he did, he committed suicide.

    The only character in the New Testament I find more “gray” is Pilate. I suspect Judas was either jealous or thought that perhaps Jesus was too big for his britches. But the scripture, to me, shows that the second Jesus was turned over, he was overwhelmed by regret. 
  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 2,472
    For every 10,000 whites arrested for violent crime in the US, 4 die in police custody. For every 10,000 blacks arrested for violent crime in the US, 3 die in police custody. 

    Non-white police officers are no less likely to use lethal force against minorities than white officers. 

    That is the factual backdrop for the conversations that have cropped up about race in the wake of the George Floyd death where the given at the beginning of the conversation is that we have systemic racism among the police and throughout our society. 

    I wrote in the other thread about living in one of the first two counties in SC to integrate the public schools in 1970. Some of the same bigotry that was present then is still around today on both sides. It’s a problem that will always need attention. It’s not the root of what’s wrong with our society today. 
  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 1,589
    edited June 4
    Regarding our current state....
    Unfortunately, our society has forgotten how to love (as mentioned above) and forgive. 

    If you want to see how ugly this has become, look at the reaction to Drew Brees’ statements. Compare how these protestors were treated to how the re-open protestors were treated. Then, there are messages where people say, “they hope these protestors get COVID.” The main brewer for evil genius brewing was fired for a horrid post.

    We need to focus on what we (the 80% of us who are reasonable) should be able to agree on...
    1) As a human being, even if you have done wrong in the past, you are owed a certain duty of care (the care to not intentionally harm emotionally or physically) by another human. 
    2) Certainly, based on the current evidence, George Floyd’s most basic human right was violated.
    3) No one should be dehumanized.
    4) Hatred in any form is wrong.
    5) None of us are free from sin. 
    6) It is difficult for us to imagine how African Americans feel if we are not African American.
    7) In the same way, if we haven’t been a police officer, we don’t know how they feel, especially when they have to work a “dangerous” beat.
    8) Whether we agree with their point of view(s) or not, freedom of assembly and freedom of speech, are protected activity in this country and are our right as an American citizen.
    9) Since we are not free from sin, we should be generous with our forgiveness.
    10) Any worthwhile conversation will allow someone to provide a counterpoint.

    My fear is that we have become too emotional. The instant gratification, short snippets and tribalism in our culture has resulted in too many of us being fine with denying the other side 1-10 above.
  • pakfanistanpakfanistan Posts: 280
    Texpack said:
    For every 10,000 whites arrested for violent crime in the US, 4 die in police custody. For every 10,000 blacks arrested for violent crime in the US, 3 die in police custody. 

    Non-white police officers are no less likely to use lethal force against minorities than white officers. 

    That is the factual backdrop for the conversations that have cropped up about race in the wake of the George Floyd death where the given at the beginning of the conversation is that we have systemic racism among the police and throughout our society. 

    I wrote in the other thread about living in one of the first two counties in SC to integrate the public schools in 1970. Some of the same bigotry that was present then is still around today on both sides. It’s a problem that will always need attention. It’s not the root of what’s wrong with our society today. 
    That's a factual strawman.

    Breonna Taylor was killed while in bed asleep. 
    George Floyd was stopped and killed for a non-violent crime.
    Philando Castile was stopped and killed for a non-violent crime.
    Eric Garner was stopped and killed for a non-violent crime. 
    Sandra Bland was in police custody and for a non-violent crime.
    Tamir Rice was killed for a non-violent crime and wasn't in police custody. 

    None of them would be captured in your "arrested for violent crime and die while in police custody".  




  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 2,472
    choppack1 said:

    My fear is that we have become too emotional. The instant gratification, short snippets and tribalism in our culture has resulted in too many of us being fine with denying the other side 1-10 above.
    The lack of impartial media outlets fuels the emotional responses to generate ratings and clicks. My son has gotten me watching The Rising on youtube with Krystal Ball(her real name) and Saagar I don’t know his last name. It’s like South Park News in that everyone gets called out when they do absurd stuff. 
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