Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Want to help support PFN?

In lieu of ads you can help me to offset PFN operating costs by making any of your Amazon.com purchases through this link at no additional cost to you.

Zion....Zion.... Who got da $$.... Under Oath....you gotta come clean...

«13

Comments

  • MikePack89MikePack89 Posts: 159
    Move move on, nothing to see here.  The kid the previous year had Nike give 6 figures to his AAU team, and by the wat, dad was the coach.  Nothing illegal there they said, and Duke was clean they said.
  • WolfWiz11WolfWiz11 Posts: 433
    Was this happening in college sports back in the 70s and 80s?? I know AAU wasn't huge then and maybe not even a thing, but man, I miss the days when I just thought guys wanted to go to certain schools and play for certain coaches. All of these events are really damaging the allure of college basketball for me. 

    Ignorance truly is bliss. 
  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 2,387
    WolfWiz11 said:
    Was this happening in college sports back in the 70s and 80s?? I know AAU wasn't huge then and maybe not even a thing, but man, I miss the days when I just thought guys wanted to go to certain schools and play for certain coaches. All of these events are really damaging the allure of college basketball for me. 

    Ignorance truly is bliss. 
    See SWC football 
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,105PFN Referee
    edited May 12
    This has been happening (via the shoe companies) since at least the 1980s.  Sonny Vicaro claims to have set most of this in motion, but my guess is that it was happening prior. 

    Our beloved JimmyV and SonnyV were tight.  While Personal Fouls was a witch hunt, there was smoke regarding the shoes and it wasn't just players taking them and selling them (NCAA findings).  I've always wondered if that's why we might have gone to LA Gear for a while.

    Charles Barkley said anyone who was good when he was coming along got paid, and that he got paid to go to Auburn.  As a reminder he was a late bloomer and grower who didn't even start on his high school basketball team until he was a senior.  So if a guy at that level was getting paid, a LOT of kids were getting paid in the early 1980s.  He also said he tried to get Dirk paid by Auburn after playing against him internationally.

    While I'm fairly certain DSJ got paid, Adidas (and by extension Gott/Early) weren't bidding against themselves.  It wasn't just about getting DSJ to NC State over another Adidas school either.  Gott/Early were just so sloppy that they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar (much like Gott seemingly did otherwise) and there so far has been some selective enforcement (interesting that the US based companies in Nike and UA have so far skated while German based Adidas has gotten "caught").

    Zion definitely got paid.  He was Clemson all the way until very late and flipped to Duke.  I've read rumblings that the total package deal was worth close to $1M, but find that hard to believe.  My guess is that number is more like $100k-$200k.

    And nothing is going to happen to Duke............ Just like nothing happened to UNC (and UNC kept their mess kept far away from players getting paid).
  • RickRick Posts: 2,180PFN Referee
    I have friend who was a trainer at State under Herb. He says even the mid tier players were getting cash. 
  • WolfWiz11WolfWiz11 Posts: 433
    I guess I won't say it's damaging the allure of college bball. Let's be real--I'm still going to watch for NCSU. But 0 respect for everyone involved, top to bottom. What a sham. 
  • WulfpackWulfpack Posts: 2,236
    Rick said:
    I have friend who was a trainer at State under Herb. He says even the mid tier players were getting cash. 
    I’ve heard the same. 
  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 1,440
    I wonder, do Duke and UNC-Ch discuss these things openly on their boards, does Clemson do the same?
  • 1984Met1984Met Posts: 417
    choppack1 said:
    I wonder, do Duke and UNC-Ch discuss these things openly on their boards, does Clemson do the same?

    For Clemson, I just have one word (actually acronym) to say:  IPTAY.
  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 1,440
    But do they openly discuss paying their players on message boards.
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,105PFN Referee
    I have no claim of insider information here, and access to nothing that isn’t publicly available.  This model has existed forever in part on the willingness of the fans to believe that “their good ol’ U“ is the only one clean and the rest are dirty.  That’s like believing Santa only comes to your house.

    There are just various levels of cheating and various levels of looking the other way.  It is true of both football and men’s basketball.  Given that schools like UNC were willing to have fake classes to prop up the non-revenue sports, there’s possibly cash for the most elite players in smaller sports as well.
  • wolfpackdawgwolfpackdawg Posts: 51
    I'd like to know how much Clem's son paid Etienne to come back this season for Trevor's last at QB.  Dabo is a scumbag.  See how he handled the PED's case if you don't agree.
  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 1,440
    edited May 13
    That’s not my point. I seriously doubt you see long term posters on the message boards of schools they are a fan of cavalierly talking about how their own school paid players. It makes zero sense...
  • RickRick Posts: 2,180PFN Referee
    I guess we can expect random posters to be called by the NCAA to testify against their school. Sorry if I do not think random anonymous posters talking about second hand information matters a whit when real evidence was ignored by the cheating NCAA. 
  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 1,440
    Rick - I removed it that note because it was a stretch. But I suspect that attitude filters to our leadership. All you have to do is see how we already gave ourselves a swift kick in the butt for some reason in responding to the NCAA only to be served with a response so severe we didn’t want the committee deciding our case.

    Again, do you think those other fans air their teams dirty laundry on their own message boards? I don’t know because I don’t frequent them, but I don’t think it’s smart. If you are lucky enough to get away with a wrong, don’t go bragging about it.

  • RickRick Posts: 2,180PFN Referee
    Oh our leadership sucks. IMO they are handling this wrong. We should stick our middle finger at the NCAA. 
    I have no idea if other schools do or do not. I just don't think anonymous message boards matter in the grand scheme of things. 
  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 1,440
    edited May 13
    Rick - I am not sure if they do either. But I don’t if it’s a self loathing thing or if everyone does it. Like I said, it just doesn’t seem too smart to me to do. If you were a realtor, would you brag about your company doing something unethical on a message board frequented by your fellow employees, especially if your company was under investigation by a real estate certification group for unethical behavior?

    Probably not. My guess is you’d understand that it was shortsighted to do so and zero good could come out of that revelation even if you logically deduced that the chances it would impact the current investigation were next to nothing. (What good comes out of it?)

    And it’s not just talk like this. In our most popular website, our own “fans” bash our recruits or our players constantly. Details matter. And if people wonder why we always get caught or can’t get that legacy recruit, welp, understand State has disadvantages and we won’t overcome them by ignoring details.
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 2,505
    random thoughts....pass the box that the Dial Antibacterial soap came in.

    Follow the money.  There was probably the same amount of $$’s flowing, based on inflation, pre Title IX than post.  Title IX exacerbated the situation.  Not only was there $$ flowing but other perks such as the Sweet Caroline’s booty squad...and UNX probably did not have a lock on that.

    Title IX depends on the revenue sports to pay for the rest.  Sort of like the top 1% paying more taxes than 90% of the rest of the nation.  So....indirectly....they have some lobbying and privileged links and have a say so.

    Next up....all University Leaders want to support Title IX....otherwise, they are called all sorts of poly syllable names....and more are invented every year.  The Director’s Cup was set up to judge a school on PC as well as Athletics.

    WHOA....this be big time money and big time money be needed.  Under the current “we all gotta know” mentality...accessing more student “athletic fees” and the University funneling $$ to supplement the jocks and jockeyed....got the faculty in an uproar.  Jealousy prevailed....need I speak about the NCSU witch hunt of 1990?

    Next up....in steps the GOVERNMENT.  We are here to help.  Famous last words.  The Universities jacked up the total cost of “going there” at a rate 3 - 4X inflation.  So...now the students are in debt.  

    Then....somebody decided that the conferences and the NCAA needed “reserves”.  My best data and guess is that Swoff and the ACC is sitting on $400-$500K in a RESERVE account.  The NCAA is in the $1.25 - $1.5 BILLION range.  Now WHY do they need that....other than for inflated salaries and massive organizational levels of bloated folks,  would be nice it they put out a simple BB Ref training course and graded and had more standardization there...but I digress.

    So, Big Time U needs for money so that the tiddly winks team has their own lounge with bling and charging stations and fly in chartered planes.   

    In comes the “helpers” or the enablers.  The NCAA and Big Time U get $$ for everything but using the bathrooms.  Drink and concession skimming.  Sponsorship of fields and commercials on the Jumbotron.  Did I mention ABC’s little cash cow, the Bowl Game scam of ESPN?

    Next up, they sell or make money on “trinkets” with pictures or perhaps, NUMBERS....that is being tested....and since the Goveris gonna straighten that out....not s worry about the schemes and repercussions.....sheesh

    i don’t have a solution.  The swamp in DC pales in comparison to the NCAA and College sports.  

    Thanks....I’m stepping down...
  • RickRick Posts: 2,180PFN Referee
    Chop,
    None of us are employees of NCSU and one could argue we are competitors trying to run NCSU down so I just do not get your concern about this. 
  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 3,636PFN Referee
    It's not hard to get a Son de Clem person to freely mention "I sure am glad the IPTAY era is back" or similar.

    Really not much hiding from the reality anymore.  We might as well talk about it freely here.

    Rip off the band-aid, let sunshine act as disinfectant, etc.
  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 1,440
    Rick - believe me, I am more concerned about other things. Other schools may do it too, but I don’t frequent their message boards, my impression based on how easily others get banned on rival boards is that there’s lines you can’t cross.

    While we aren’t employees, most of us would qualify as “boosters” and I look at it from more of a marketing perspective. 

    BJD - here’s the thing. NO ONE ELSE is playing by those rules. We were definitely the most honest guy on the block during the LES and MOC years and those were oh, so rewarding. So, yeah, rip the band aid off and let your neighbor pour salt in it. 

    Me, I don’t wanna know how the sausage is made and if I find out, I ain’t sharing it with a message board. 

    And if we are going to cavalierly bring this up then please don’t whine when or complain the NCAA hammers us.
  • RickRick Posts: 2,180PFN Referee
    I am sorry I just do not get the consternation. Especially given you and I agree on most things but I am willing to grant that if the NCAA hammers us for a post on a message board I promise I will not whine or complain. 
  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 1,440
    Ok Rick. Sounds good. :D
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,105PFN Referee
    edited May 13
    Go read some other boards. I have.  All schools fans are the same.  Humans are fundamentally the same. 

    The difference in some of the boards is how they are run, and the moderation with them.  Some sights have draconian deletion policies to ensure a curated message, just like there are different media outlets who present different messages.  Those sites are about as credible as some of those media outlets.

    What I find most hilarious is the belief that some communities have that being behind a paywall makes for insiders. That's a joke.  It's not some clandestine illegal poker match where you have to be vetted before you show up.  It's "inside" to anyone who is willing to pay $30 a year, which any FBI investigator or reporting doing an investigation will trivially do.  So I think it's hilarious when the free side is heavily moderated and what's behind the pay wall is not.  All that is about is driving people to pay, not about getting to a curated message (and some sights are like that).

    I honestly don't care if NCAA sports gets canceled forever -- at least football and men's basketball.  This mess is corrupt, dirty and we're at the bottom of the pecking order in our division, facing massive, institutionalized cheating machines and incredibly deep coffers.  Heck, it'd be better off for us if the entire thing were completely turned off for a couple of years, reworked with massive oversight and auditing, and possibly re-introduced.

    And if you want to know why NC State sports sites are more "honest," I think it's largely because we know the realities of the stacked deck.  UNC/Duke benefit from hiding all that dirty laundry, but they are ALLOWED to benefit.  If people think they personally gain, then they play along (much like IPTAY). If they don't, then they won't.  I don't see how NC State has benefited from the current rules structure in almost any macro way since about 1989.

  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 2,505
    ryebread said:
    Go read some other boards. I have.  All schools fans are the same.  Humans are fundamentally the same. 

    The difference in some of the boards is how they are run, and the moderation with them.  Some sights have draconian deletion policies to ensure a curated message, just like there are different media outlets who present different messages.  Those sites are about as credible as some of those media outlets.

    What I find most hilarious is the belief that some communities have that being behind a paywall makes for insiders. That's a joke.  It's not some clandestine illegal poker match where you have to be vetted before you show up.  It's "inside" to anyone who is willing to pay $30 a year, which any FBI investigator or reporting doing an investigation will trivially do.  So I think it's hilarious when the free side is heavily moderated and what's behind the pay wall is not.  All that is about is driving people to pay, not about getting to a curated message (and some sights are like that).

    I honestly don't care if NCAA sports gets canceled forever -- at least football and men's basketball.  This mess is corrupt, dirty and we're at the bottom of the pecking order in our division, facing massive, institutionalized cheating machines and incredibly deep coffers.  Heck, it'd be better off for us if the entire thing were completely turned off for a couple of years, reworked with massive oversight and auditing, and possibly re-introduced.

    And if you want to know why NC State sports sites are more "honest," I think it's largely because we know the realities of the stacked deck.  UNC/Duke benefit from hiding all that dirty laundry, but they are ALLOWED to benefit.  If people think they personally gain, then they play along (much like IPTAY). If they don't, then they won't.  I don't see how NC State has benefited from the current rules structure in almost any macro way since about 1989.

    Rye,

    I think you are at the same point that I am at.  We lost all our soul and were used as an example and then rolled over and asked to be beaten again....maybe every day for years.  The fact that we had, I THINK, higher GPA or maybe admission standards for athletes (BB?) that the student body speaks volumes about our submission.  Between the UNC BOG and the NCSU BOT and the Faculty Senate and the crusading "Dr. FIXIT Monteith", you could write a Harvard Business Review paper on stupidity.  I FORGOT Claude Sitton of the N&O....but Jimmy V did not.  Jimmy V.'s birthday present was Sitton's death.  Don't tell me that was coincidence...

    SO....to your point.....it is about the MONEY.  when you have P5 conferences and they have.....speculating from the info that I dug up and was confirmed by some very knowledgeable folks.....probably $500K each or 2.5 Billion "In Reserve".  Add in the NCAA's $1.5 Coffer and you are at $4 BILLION.  Maybe an additional BILLION for the other smaller ones and the lower levels.  

    That means that the NCAA has 5 BILLION in reserve.  WTFF?  Are they going to be sued by every jock and jockette who's picture was used in a program that had advertising?  Are the FB players going to sue for head injuries?  Are the diver's going sue for ear damage?....

    This is a sham.....with a CAPITAL $$$$$$$$$$$
Sign In or Register to comment.