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Sounds like we are getting nailed by the NCAA

You don’t issue a statement like this if the prosecutor accepts your plea agreement or comes at you with an acceptable counter offer.

https://twitter.com/ArmstrongABC11/status/1226985708310671360
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Comments

  • Thanks Debbie.  I hope you see this.
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,233PFN Referee
    Yep.  That didn’t go well.  Postseason ban for sure.
  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 1,845
    Let’s face it Rye...when we responded like we did were begging to be punished. 

    I hated the plead guilty to a lesser crime plea but take a pretty harsh punishment tact. It’s an admission of guilt and acts like you are negotiating with an honorable and decent 3rd party. The NCAA understandably sensed weakness in the response and responded like the bullies we at NC State know them to be.
  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 2,629
    This virtually guarantees the sweep of Duke
  • Postseason ban? Think of all the nail biter NIT games against no name competition we’ll miss out on.
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,233PFN Referee
    Chop:  I am with you and said the same from the beginning.  The best move was to cop a quick plea, move ahead and put this behind us.  The NCAA has to prove they can enforce this time around in large part because they let UNC skate...

    jp: By fighting, we have just prolonged things. Watch the ban be next year, when we had a pretty good chance at punching a ticket.
  • WulfpackWulfpack Posts: 2,243
    Thanks Debbie.  I hope you see this.
    Exactly my thoughts. 
  • RickRick Posts: 2,485PFN Referee
    edited February 11
    To accept any punishment from them is a joke. I would lawyer up and tell them to kiss our ***. I have said all along I would be completely done with men's sports if we get hammered although our abject futility has kind of already done that. 
    Men's sports is more corrupt than the mob and more predictable than the WWE. I honestly have no idea why anyone bothers watching it any longer. 
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,233PFN Referee
    edited February 11
    Rick: No question it is corrupt. It is so blatantly bad that I have lost a significant percentage of my interest.  All I have ever wanted was a level playing field and it is just not even close.

    I still don’t understand the fighting. It isn’t like State has the stones or the resources to fight to the bitter end.  There’s no point when the NCAA cites the last witch hunt against us as grounds to say we are repeat offenders.
  • RickRick Posts: 2,485PFN Referee
    I know we will not fight. I would hope we would but we will not.

    Heck we have given Boo a financial incentive NOT to fight. I honestly hope every financial backer of NCSU walks away after this. 
  • SamIamSamIam Posts: 509
    ryebread said:
    Yep.  That didn’t go well.  Postseason ban for sure.
    HAAAAAA!!!!!!  was this meant as a joke?
  • SamIamSamIam Posts: 509
    Rick said:
    To accept any punishment from them is a joke. I would lawyer up and tell them to kiss our ***. I have said all along I would be completely done with men's sports if we get hammered although our abject futility has kind of already done that. 
    Men's sports is more corrupt than the mob and more predictable than the WWE. I honestly have no idea why anyone bothers watching it any longer. 
    Exactly Rick.  This would take every donor to send an email and then follow up by not renewing seats and removing banking account info from the wolfpack club website.  Otherwise boo boo will eventually bow his head and stumble off like the dumb little brother we present ourselves as.
  • GsoPackBackerGsoPackBacker Posts: 1,073
    I am not a big on tilting at windmills but it seems that there are two primary strategies with the NCAA.
    -You're guilty of more and/or don't want the NCAA digging around too much so you admit and self impose.
    -You're guilty, but question the NCAA and welcome them sniffing around, hoping you lessen or delay your punishment.

    The final strategy is what the Holes did, but a large part of that is on the Academic side where the schools will obviously battle the NCAA to keep them out of their business.

    I think while we might have a case (because it essentially requires self-admission) , the NCAA can also look right past that too (and feel righteous about it)

    Hope we haven't overplayed our hand, but I'd rather do that than the alternative at this point.
  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 1,845
    Rye - from my POV, you either needed to fall on your sword or fight. The NCAA doesn’t reward cooperation...they never have. They stick their finger in the air and check the pulseof the msm. (read Bilas, ESPN) and their key schools. Obviously, they sense we are an easy “mark” 

    We will be punished and if Woodson’s response is any indication, pretty badly. As for our options, we can’t lawyer our way out of these charges. There’s no technical exemption we can apply with the exception of claiming DSJ didn’t receive the $$$. The NCAA appears to have made up their mind. Keep in mind, this isn’t a jury trial.
  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 3,807PFN Referee
    That was the lesson from U*NC - admit absofuckinglutely NOTHING.

    Boo "goes along to get along" - and I bet the NCAA waits so the post-season ban cripples us NEXT season, causing our recruiting class to implode.

    They don't care about keeping us out of the 2020 NIT.
  • GsoPackBackerGsoPackBacker Posts: 1,073
    I'm sure Boo knew the deal when he came on board and was either fine with the planned  approach or asked for something in return contractually to be ok with it.

    We're in this far, I say we keep pushing.  At some point we may decide to take that our punishment this year instead of next, but I'm not sure we are there yet.
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,233PFN Referee
    edited February 11
    I agree with BJD that this will target us next year.  There's no way they'll let us self-ban this season.  They'd look to derail us next year and possibly the following.

    I agree with chop that our response was just asking the NCAA to enforce to the maximum. I'm not scared of them, but I question the strategy. 

    We have to remember that the NCAA is effectively just its member institutions.  It will do what is best for the collective business.

    If the federal government thinks that the NCAA cannot self govern, then they will go after them for taxes, require worker's comp for football, etc..  None of those member institutions (including NC State) want that.  The FBI's involvement says that the government is watching them a little bit, which for years (and with UNC) seemingly wasn't the case.

    The only way the cabal can stand is if they self govern based on the rules they say that they care about.  They don't care about academics (as shown with the UNC case).  They have shown that they only care about impermissible benefits and gambling on games.  That is pretty much it.

    It was pretty clear early that this was the case.  It was also key that the NCAA had lined up State first, to get the plea, to hit the more egregious violators harder.

    The three approaches seemed to be:
    1) Cop a quick plea and move on
    2) Put up token resistance, then cop a plea
    3) Fight to the bitter end
    I have just never thought NC State had the money and the will to fight this to the bitter end in a way that was needed to win.  The question was really whether we were doing #1 or #2.  Woodson's response suggests we're possibly not doing either and think we're doing #3?!?!?

    I also agree with GSO that Boo knew the deal when he came to State.  I think it's part of why he let things play out with DD like he did in the fall (bigger fish to fry). 

    I also think that's why State extended KK twice.  We're trying to ride him until we are through this mess.  Hopefully he gives us reason to keep him longer, but at the worst case we're not making another Les type hire.
  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 2,629
    Just so I understand the standards for evidence in an NCAA investigation. 
    Institution admits in writing a major violation and serves two years probation with another governing body for that violation. Then says the admission was a typo. Admission is inadmissible. 

    Institution accused of violation involving coach and player passing of cash. Coach denies it happened. Player denies it happened. Third party not present when the alleged violation occurs says he wanted it to happen and gave the coach cash. Never got confirmation from player that he got the cash. Never got confirmation from coach that he passed the cash. He thinks it happened. 

    Information from third party is 100% credible. Information from coach and player essentially inadmissible. 

    Let me know if I missed something. 
  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 3,807PFN Referee
    I hate the NCAA and wish we had, say, 16 or so teams that wanted to secede.
  • GsoPackBackerGsoPackBacker Posts: 1,073
    Tex, I agree with you.

    The system is built on tattling/narcing and self-admission and the NCAA's interpretation of those "facts".

    The system is already broken.  It's just a matter of when the NCAA comes to the same conclusion.
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 2,793
    edited February 11
    There was a headline....  NCAA Spends $750,000 on Lobbying.

    You might want to read it.  I just contributed to the ACC’ s lobbying fund as I bought ACCT tickets...

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ncaa-spent-750000-lobbying-congress-to-curb-potential-earnings-for-college-athletes-2020-02-11

    And... as a follow up...

    https://www.wralsportsfan.com/ncaas-emmert-presses-senate-for-guardrails-on-athlete-pay/18946621/
  • GsoPackBackerGsoPackBacker Posts: 1,073
    I love it.  Emmet's comments make it seem that there already isn't an imbalance in sponsorship money which leads to a unlevel playing field.

    I would argue that while it would most definitely  bea cluster, it actually provides an avenue to level the playing field a little for some lesser schools.

    Further corrupts things for sure, but Emmett pretending things aren't already corrupted with money is laughable
  • GsoPackBackerGsoPackBacker Posts: 1,073
    NCAA President Mark Emmert said “everyone agrees” schools shouldn’t be able to use big endorsement deals to gain a recruiting advantage.
  • 1984Met1984Met Posts: 628
    The NCAA isn't the only college sports governing body "in town".  Time for schools to just tell them to get lost.  One day a few big schools will do that.  Or one day Congress will get involved (not that I'm for that).  That might be the day that things come crashing down.
  • SamIamSamIam Posts: 509
    What congress, the house, president whoever needs to do is completely dismantle the AAU organizations.  AAU is nothing but a breeding ground for adults looking to monetarily benefit from young kids.  Regardless of what anyone believes kids are not recruited out of high school gyms anymore.  It's the tournaments, the classics all sponsored by Nike/Adidas ect....money galore, agents galore and plenty of daddy's walking around with their hand out.  
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