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Playing for best of the worst: Georgia Tech Game Thread

TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 1,918PFN Referee
How the hell is this game getting coverage on ESPN in prime time?  Should be a total slug fest.. who wants it least? 
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Comments

  • WulfpackWulfpack Posts: 1,570
    You know I was just thinking the same thing. Miserable late season game that means nothing, and nobody will be watching. This season can’t end quickly enough. 
  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 2,818PFN Referee
    There will be an NFL game, nobody will care but us.
  • etab4uetab4u Posts: 61
    edited November 18
    I’m going to the GT game.  Although not  because I have any great interest in the game itself at this point in the season, even though it may be one of our closer matchups. Earlier this year a friend and Tech grad asked me to get together with him and a bunch of other old friends to tailgate and go to the game.  I agreed.  So, I’ll be there in my red and white backing the Pack. However, in the spirit of NC State tradition at CF during years such as this, we may simply go in to for the first half and resume the tailgate thereafter. 
  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 1,708
    There will be an NFL game, nobody will care but us.
    Texans vs Colts. I’ll be streaming one and watching the other on the tele
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,273PFN Referee
    I just looked at USAToday’s coaching salaries and buyouts page.  Some things stood out:
    1) We are paying DD the 5th most in the conference (does not include ND).
    2) The fourth most is paid $50k more.  Effectively DD is in a tie for 3rd.
    3) We are paying DD a $1m+ more than Wake pays Clausen and $600k more than Duke pays Cutcliffe.
    4) Louisville (who spends whatever it takes) is paying Satterfield the exact same thing we are paying DD.
    5) We are paying DD more than what the USC Trojans are paying and more than 1/2 the Pac12 (Oregon, Cal, Oregon State, Arizona State, Arizona, Colorado). We are also paying more than Ole Miss, Miss State and Missouri.
    6) Drink is making $750k at App State. Houston at ECU is making nearly $2m less than DD.
    7) Buyouts are a little murkier but we are a near the bottom in the ACC on published word buyouts.
    8) UNC is paying Mack $250k a year more than DD.
    9) We are paying DD more than Les Miles is making.

    Some quick thoughts on the data:
    - Not all of these might be right. Private schools might not accurately report, or there might be private funds.
    - Not sure that I totally buy the narrative that we don’t spend enough to compete in the ACC.
    - For ROI if in state coaches, State football doesn’t look so good.
    - There are good candidates out there that would clearly take the pay bump that it appears we would offer.
  • WulfpackWulfpack Posts: 1,570
    The Yow extension bumped his pay from $2.2 to $3 million, which drove up the cost of his buyout. If he took another job this year he would owe $4.5 million. Next year his base salary increases to $2.25 million and supplemental income falls to $750k. In 2021 and 2022, he receives a base salary of $3 million, with no supplemental income. The buyout is calculated from his base salary times years left on his contract. 

    Long story short is we may be stuck with one another. 
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 1,798
    ryebread said:
    I just looked at USAToday’s coaching salaries and buyouts page.  Some things stood out:
    1) We are paying DD the 5th most in the conference (does not include ND).
    2) The fourth most is paid $50k more.  Effectively DD is in a tie for 3rd.
    3) We are paying DD a $1m+ more than Wake pays Clausen and $600k more than Duke pays Cutcliffe.
    4) Louisville (who spends whatever it takes) is paying Satterfield the exact same thing we are paying DD.
    5) We are paying DD more than what the USC Trojans are paying and more than 1/2 the Pac12 (Oregon, Cal, Oregon State, Arizona State, Arizona, Colorado). We are also paying more than Ole Miss, Miss State and Missouri.
    6) Drink is making $750k at App State. Houston at ECU is making nearly $2m less than DD.
    7) Buyouts are a little murkier but we are a near the bottom in the ACC on published word buyouts.
    8) UNC is paying Mack $250k a year more than DD.
    9) We are paying DD more than Les Miles is making.

    Some quick thoughts on the data:
    - Not all of these might be right. Private schools might not accurately report, or there might be private funds.
    - Not sure that I totally buy the narrative that we don’t spend enough to compete in the ACC.
    - For ROI if in state coaches, State football doesn’t look so good.
    - There are good candidates out there that would clearly take the pay bump that it appears we would offer.
    Rye,
    I read a lot of contracts as well as the surveys.  Surveys, and I did a few when I was an IE Manager and we wanted to know what our labor competitors were paying in our geographical area, were often difficult to reconcile and unless you called back and went over each response, sometimes were les than even coming close to accurate.

    you may or not have seen this one...so this is NOT to refute your research, only provide more info as well as maybe how another newswriter (or his interns) looked at the USA Data..

    Here are the rankings....purportedly from the USA data....go figure...  I copied and pasted the summary below into Word and here is it.  Suggest that folks click on the link.  There is a short summary on each coach/program.  I have NO idea how the writer got his numbers or whether he was privy to the entire USA Data base or such....

    BTW. It will be #9 (GT) playing #7 (NCSU). Even the mass challenged (probably 2X your BMI) young ladies can enter the Beauty Pageant.  We will be watching their “talent portion” in PRIMETIME on Thursday....how absolutely and positively PC...

    13. Dave Clawson | Wake Forest | $2,189,063

    12. Dino Babers | Syracuse | $2,268,825

    11. Steve Addazio | Boston College | $2,643,012

    10. David Cutcliffe | Duke | $2,669,345

    9. Geoff Collins | Georgia Tech | $3,000,000

    8. PITTSBURGH | PAT NARDUZZI | $3,213,953

     7. DAVE DOEREN | NC STATE | $3,250,000

     6. SCOTT SATTERFIELD | LOUISVILLE | $3,250,000

     5. MACK BROWN | NORTH CAROLINA | $3,500,000

     4. BRONCO MENDENHALL | VIRGINIA | $3,700,000

     3. JUSTIN FUENTE | VIRGINIA TECH | $4,000,000

     2. WILLIE TAGGART | FLORIDA STATE | $5,000,000

     1. DABO SWINNEY | CLEMSON | $9,315,600

     (Editor’s NOTE….Mikey K just saw this and is DEMANDING a RAISE and a BIG ONE….he is KING of the BB Coaches….)

  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 1,708
    ryebread said:
    I just looked at USAToday’s coaching salaries and buyouts page.  Some things stood out:
    1) We are paying DD the 5th most in the conference (does not include ND).
    2) The fourth most is paid $50k more.  Effectively DD is in a tie for 3rd.
    3) We are paying DD a $1m+ more than Wake pays Clausen and $600k more than Duke pays Cutcliffe. - Cutcliffe is a better version of TOB.  He's a good fit at Duke where he could win 78 games in a row and still be the second most important HC on campus.  When you have tents and port-a-cans for a visitors locker room you're not going to attract any coaches that command very much money.
    4) Louisville (who spends whatever it takes) is paying Satterfield the exact same thing we are paying DD.
    5) We are paying DD more than what the USC Trojans are paying and more than 1/2 the Pac12 (Oregon, Cal, Oregon State, Arizona State, Arizona, Colorado). We are also paying more than Ole Miss, Miss State and Missouri. - This I find hard to believe.  Their must be booster money that isn't included going to some of these guys.  I know you are just reporting what the list says.
    6) Drink is making $750k at App State. Houston at ECU is making nearly $2m less than DD. - The TV contract for the AAC is about $24 million less per school than it is for the ACC.  
    7) Buyouts are a little murkier but we are a near the bottom in the ACC on published word buyouts.
    8) UNC is paying Mack $250k a year more than DD.
    9) We are paying DD more than Les Miles is making. - Several G5 schools passed on Les Miles.  He's like Frank Solich at Ohio.

    Some quick thoughts on the data:
    - Not all of these might be right. Private schools might not accurately report, or there might be private funds.
    - Not sure that I totally buy the narrative that we don’t spend enough to compete in the ACC.
    - For ROI if in state coaches, State football doesn’t look so good.
    - There are good candidates out there that would clearly take the pay bump that it appears we would offer. - I think this is very true, but we would lose Hux if we fired DD.
    I threw in my thoughts.  This season has been the first major step back during DD's tenure.  We've had other non-stellar years but the regression this year has been huge.  Were the injuries the primary culprit?  Maybe, but in year 7 you should have had more depth than this developed.  I also think Finley running out of eligibility was pretty widely known.  After watching all three of the QBs, (it's hard to call them QBs) you can understand the conundrum the staff faced in picking a starter.  They wanted a game manager who wouldn't screw things up.  He's not on this roster.
  • While head coach salary is important, I think what is equally as important is the Assistant Coach salary pool.  Combine that with what other resources the school will commit to support the success of the football program (operations centers, weight rooms, housing, ping pong tables, etc. 

    Coaches are logical beings like us ( I think).  Most of us wouldn't just jump at a job with a big salary.  However, if we were paid well, had a substantial budget to attract and build a good team, and had all the amenities to attract them (even if the company had been going through some issues), that would be something of significant interest to most of us.

    Take a peek at what Clemson did and one of the reasons Jimbo Fisher wanted FSU to pony up more $$$ before he decided to leave.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lupS-rvh6Zw

    Maybe FSU should have spent that $17 million Willie Taggart buyout on something that would attract recruits to Tallahassee. 
  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 2,818PFN Referee
    IPTAY is a money-printing (and likely laundering) machine on par with the late, great Heisenberg's.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07wuZ3EWMAA
  • 44rules44rules Posts: 345
    etab4u, we're in Section 129. A bunch of folks from Packlanta are going to be there. Some of us will meet on the second floor of Publik Draft House before the game.

    As far as our coaching. I'm just sad and disappointed. Do I ever wish we had Satterfield, though ... I like a lot of what DD has done, but it seems like the proverbial HWSNBM'ed, he can't get over the hump with the big win. I would like to see a cornerback turn his head and look at the ball one day. Those are the things my fantasy dreams are made of ...
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 1,798
    FROM TEXPACK



    5) We are paying DD more than what the USC Trojans are paying and more than 1/2 the Pac12 (Oregon, Cal, Oregon State, Arizona State, Arizona, Colorado). We are also paying more than Ole Miss, Miss State and Missouri. - This I find hard to believe.  Their must be booster money that isn't included going to some of these guys.  I know you are just reporting what the list says.

    Well, don't KNOW about USC....but I DID do some backdoor and high level snooping and talked to friends in the Rams Club.  UNC is STILL paying, and asking for MORE contributions for THEIR Roy and Mack and so forth PAY.

    BUT....the UNC AD's PR's NOW do NOT list...nor can you FIND....the breakdown of what ORW and Mack 2.0 makes.  The Rams Club $$ is hidden in the SUPPLEMENTAL.

    Now don't think that means that it is under the counter or passed by briefcase drops at the Franklin St Starbucks.  It is paid legitimately with a W2 or 1099.  BUT, it ain't reported NO MORE as a line item.  Something was said or suggested by the PR firm and since TGU, it is being soft pedaled for the press....but a MAJOR point in Rams Club UPPER ECHELON emails and or at NON Recorded fund raising session.

    Beat goes on.

    Of COURSE all know that the WPC does not, above or below the table, contribute one Farthing to either of our Revenue or non Revenue....for that matter.
  • So why can't we press the powers to be to have the Wolfpack Club charter changed (back)?  Just seems that it is hard for the unbiased to argue why NC State has to have a competitive disadvantage in this area.  

    Someone lease enlighten me.
  • I'm giving DD a pass this year. Is he overpaid? Yes, in my book. But he had many defections in critical staff last year. Up to that point, I'd have given him a B on coaching staff choices. Now, he's down to a C- in my book. I think he was forced to scramble somewhat and chose stability and loyalty (this appears to be a constant) over what's best for the program. Just a guess.

    The bigger problem imo is that the quickly mounting losses will hurt recruiting, and that doesn't bode well when coupled with his gameday decisions, peer school success and new hires, and the unwillingness to do anything about the defensive side of the ball. Seven years later, speed still looks pedestrian to me outside a handful of spots.

    The defense is baffling. We supposedly changed to the 3-3-5 this year because we hired a new assistant, had less experienced depth at the D-line, and better speed and skill at the LB and defensive back positions. I realize injuries have plagued the backend, but I saw nothing early in the season to suggest that was a strength either.
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 1,798
    So why can't we press the powers to be to have the Wolfpack Club charter changed (back)?  Just seems that it is hard for the unbiased to argue why NC State has to have a competitive disadvantage in this area.  

    Someone lease enlighten me.
    My take.  We were told to wear the Scarlet V (at least it was NOT UNC blue) as part of our penitence.  Or perhaps threatened to be water boarded (Dunked was the term back then) or being warmed up whilst restrained on a pole.

    That made the Faculty Senate and the new ANTI-Athletics Chancellor, HAPPY.  Why ELSE would he have tired Todd Turner?  

    It appeared that we had a lifetime sentence...  We finally got a partial pardon when the "Arena" was named after Jimmy V.  Thanks to folks with bountiful resources like Wendell Murphy....and others.  We have lots Mr. Dail and he was a wonderful and kind giver.

    OK....back on point.  We figured out that there IS a way to make money from being virtuous....rather then selling our bodies to every perverted miscreant that waves a $20 Bill and tells us to disrobe or do other things relegated to presidential interns...

    We took the high road.  We hired Bobby (AKA Professor Harold Hill) Purcell and he pulled off a marketing coup.  We are now paid, handsomely, to flaunt and expose our high moral position or virtue.  If the Internet and the book tour had been around when Hester Prinn dropped her bloomers....and REPENTED....she would be a hit on the circuits and be a multimillionariss.  By marketing how much we give and WHERE it goes and that NONE of it is doled out to "Coaches", we are unique.  We certainly have raised a LOT of money. 

    Word on the street was that the GA (controlled by a certain party and certain graduates of a snarly institution OVER THERE) decided to teach us a LESSON.  They set up the rule that the WPC had to pay Out of State Tuition to Athletes and not get the "In State" lower break.  OPPS....they forgot that once they passed a rule....THEY had to follow it...so the Rams club got hit more.  BUT, their focus is on Wine Bars and Cheese purchases and Coach's salaries and NOT Schollies.

    I think that Bobby Purcell ought to be the recipient of the FIRST "Harold Hill Marketing Award"....and it did not include a "Boy's Band".

    Bottom line.....he came up with the LTR's and the ONLY MONEY FOR Student Athlete's Tuition strategy....and it has worked well.  He also then figured out HOW to make a pitch for capital projects and our facilities (pity that the results have not followed) are first class.  We had an IPF before it became fashionable...

    Changing the WPC Charter and setting up trust funds for Coaches is NOT gonna happen....especially with Dr. Woodson at the helm.  We are unique.  We had out fun...  and then we "Supposedly" got caught....and now we live loftily on the swine (thanks to Mr. Hog Farmer....with the greatest respect) and people pay to see us flaunt our virtue.

    I'm cool with that.  Write Dr. Woodson or Bobby if you have suggestions....THEY will answer. 
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,273PFN Referee
    I have no insider knowledge on the WPC, it’s charter, etc. so I’m going with what Roo says there.

    I don’t fully believe the coaching salaries.  There are lots of ways to hide money, or provide supplemental and parallel streams.  It just looks like “on paper” that we pay better than many of our fans are lead to believe.

    I’m sure there are outliers, but I would bet that head coach salaries are generally a good proxy for other budget line items as well.  Maybe there are a few Frank Beamers out there that feed the assistants at a higher rate than the average, but I do think a safe rule of thumb is if the head man is making only slightly less than your OC or DC (e.g. Drink at App) then their program’s not going to be able to compete on assistants either.

    I suspect that DD is back next year unless someone picks him up (DD leaves on his own). When I look at those salaries, I doubt anyone is going to out pay us for DD, so we will have him.  

    I could see a scenario where Boo realizes he has to pay this guy either way, so he might as well cut his losses. It is easier now because he gets to blame Yow.  Some part of me thinks Boo is going to want his own hire in that seat. The football coach is the most important coach from a revenue perspective in college athletics.

    I also don’t opine for Les Miles (or Leach) in case I made it seem that way.  Something tells me that if you struggle to win 9 at LSU, you’re going to struggle even more to do the same at NC State.  I just mention him because I have heard the narrative that NC State would never be able to attract a good coach, and I don’t believe it.
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 1,798
    ryebread said:
    I have no insider knowledge on the WPC, it’s charter, etc. so I’m going with what Roo says there.

    I don’t fully believe the coaching salaries.  There are lots of ways to hide money, or provide supplemental and parallel streams.  It just looks like “on paper” that we pay better than many of our fans are lead to believe.

    I’m sure there are outliers, but I would bet that head coach salaries are generally a good proxy for other budget line items as well.  Maybe there are a few Frank Beamers out there that feed the assistants at a higher rate than the average, but I do think a safe rule of thumb is if the head man is making only slightly less than your OC or DC (e.g. Drink at App) then their program’s not going to be able to compete on assistants either.

    I suspect that DD is back next year unless someone picks him up (DD leaves on his own). When I look at those salaries, I doubt anyone is going to out pay us for DD, so we will have him.  

    I could see a scenario where Boo realizes he has to pay this guy either way, so he might as well cut his losses. It is easier now because he gets to blame Yow.  Some part of me thinks Boo is going to want his own hire in that seat. The football coach is the most important coach from a revenue perspective in college athletics.

    I also don’t opine for Les Miles (or Leach) in case I made it seem that way.  Something tells me that if you struggle to win 9 at LSU, you’re going to struggle even more to do the same at NC State.  I just mention him because I have heard the narrative that NC State would never be able to attract a good coach, and I don’t believe it.
    Thanks for the comment and "credibility".  I have been reading the contracts for at least 20 years.  GUESS WHAT....the Internet, that was the Wealth of INFO (you can find anything there)....is starting to get "controlled" of censored.  There was a WHOLE lot more transparency many years ago.  The local TV and Newspaper writers would have copied of the contracts.  Technically, the local boys (DD and MB 2.0) are "State" Employees.  SO, under the FIOA (or threat of same), the AD's communications directors would provide a PDF.  It was easy doing a google search and I have many of them squirreled away on my hard drive.  BUT....low ans behold....as there are FEWER and FEWER writers (the bland folks behind the front wall of the web site are now controlling things)...  So, you can't find Mack's or Dave's or Roy's or Kevin's.  That is something that has happened in the past few years and now it is getting worse.  SURE, I can write Boo and ask him for a copy.  I did that with AD Yow and got an email from her legal eagle.  i explained that I was NOT a writer and that I had earlier copies that were posted or provided and such and she relented.  BUT, when I asked for a copy of the WRAL (CBC) & Learfield one....one would have thought that I was the Nasty Enquirer and wanted pictures of (fill the blank for your own choices....Trump, Willie Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Liz Warren....whomever) said individuals when they attended a party (Randy Woodson's or Bobby Purcell's of that Epstein character....the one that committed suicide...).  NOPE....have to do a FOIA for THAT...

    SO...the vast resources of the internet are only as good as the folks that continue to dig.

    NOW...., as you say, Rye, we get SUMMARIES.  ORW and MB 2.0 have a larger Supplemental amount.

    NOW....in the olden days of say 2015 or so....the contracts spelled out how many cars and what "Class" (they get TWO) and how many TICKETS.....and where the tickets ARE....and what their "Non-Reviewed Expense Accounts" are allowed (total annual $$) as well as the "Limit" on such.  That translated, means they have $$ to spend if they or a coach want to entertain a recruit.  I THINK that fund at Louisville was used by a talent agent for a bunch of exotic dancers, who provided other amenities...

    BUT...alas and alack....the fewer the writers and such....the fewer the requests....and factor in TGU and the PR advice to Bubba (highly paid for)....then you get the picture.

    I COULD be wrong here....but under IRS rules and such, the non profit status of Duke required a "report"....much like the 10K reports for a publicly held company.  There was a WEALTH of info there....and a litlle line..."List of the most highly compensated employees".  UH OH....who is that....it aint the Chancellor....it is Mikey and THEN Cutt.  SO, by pulling the correct IRS filing....even though the identity MAY have been redacted....one easily figures out that Mikey makes $9 Million - PLUS.....just from DUKE's accounts.  
  • JpageJpage Posts: 51
    1st and for most this game is a up for grabs BS of who wants it the least. I fo 1 will be glad when the seasons over in HIGH HOPES we don’t get any bowl as how we stunk it up last years bowl. It was painful to see how we were out coached, out skilled and out classed. Jimbos team scored on us at will. I think ole DD also is lives on his on hype which he is in a dream that he is above us all and it’s State’s fault. Why wait another year and suffer the record and recruiting trail, It’s gonna cost us either way! You’ll see which way State wants to go by action forward. DD is good for a smaller school where he can be a BIG FISH ! I think the best of DD has come and gone ! GT wants to say at least they beat us and UNX will hang as much on us as possible, to carry ole Mack off the field! I hoped for different but u got to get real with reality. In hopes KK can make it a little more interesting but AGAIN with a short bench we r up for injury or suspension etc as ANOTHER dismal season! I’ve learned when it comes to State expect the least and you wont be disappointed, that way when a W does come our way u can say WOW ! 
  • SamIamSamIam Posts: 354
    edited November 20
    Well that took a turn.
  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 2,818PFN Referee
    We are soooooo winning this fucker.  Just to make the 12th game nervy.
  • TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 1,918PFN Referee
    edited November 20
    We are soooooo winning this fucker.  Just to make the 12th game nervy.
    I really think we are going to lose and it will be a shit sandwich around here as well as other internet places of congregation for the Wolfpack faithful.

    We have the perfect storm for being an awful team right now.. No QB + significant injuries. 

    Folks get tired of the excuses, I get it, but you're going to be hard pressed to find a coaching staff that can win with our available roster right now.  Dave ole chap can lose out (and I think he will) but I still think he deserves a chance to right the ship next year due to his building to back to back 9 win seasons here.
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,273PFN Referee
    I wouldn’t bet a dime on NC State on the road. We’ve been bad on the road the entire DD tenure outside of a game in Tallahassee and a couple in Chapel Hill. 

    GT got thumped last week by VT but does show signs of improvement. To TAT’s point, we are beaten up and while I don’t think we are maximizing what we have, I also think at this point it is a pretty low ceiling.

    I think if we lose this weekend, DD’s seat gets red hot.  I still think he is back next year, but maybe his agent starts putting feelers out.
  • 44rules44rules Posts: 345
    We're doomed, doomed, I tell you. 
  • We will be GT’s feel good positive note end to the season before they get thumped by Georgia, no doubt 
  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 786
    ryebread said:
    I wouldn’t bet a dime on NC State on the road. We’ve been bad on the road the entire DD tenure outside of a game in Tallahassee and a couple in Chapel Hill. 

    GT got thumped last week by VT but does show signs of improvement. To TAT’s point, we are beaten up and while I don’t think we are maximizing what we have, I also think at this point it is a pretty low ceiling.

    I think if we lose this weekend, DD’s seat gets red hot.  I still think he is back next year, but maybe his agent starts putting feelers out.
    It’s a little too late for those feelers unless he’s going to go the D2 route.
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