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NC State vs. Detroit in basketball -- Game thread

ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,273PFN Referee
edited November 6 in Wolfpack Sports
Welp, the NC State men's basketball season kicked off with a bit of a whimper at home against GT.  For those who missed it, there was no Markell (injury), no DJ (suspension), no Seabron (out for the year, academic casualty) and no Harris (transfer because his minutes were going to be taken by Seabron), and there was no W for the Pack.  Jamie Luckie did say hello and reminded NC State fans that he's the same ref despite a new uniform.

While there are no mulligans, and we're officially 0-1 in conference, this feels like what would be a "normal" starting game for NC State.  Let's pretend we're starting on Sunday, feast on a cupcake and go build from there.

The Detroit Mercy Titans basketball program is probably best known as the former coaching stop for Dukie V.  That was arguably the high point for Detroit basketball as the now ESPN analyst went .731 over 4 seasons and made it to a Sweet 16.  Vitale then left for the greener pastures of the NBA, where he quickly flushed out as a head man at the Pistons.  The Mercy Titans have never made it back to the Sweet 16 and have only had 4 more NCAA tournament berths in the last 40 years.

This year doesn't look that different for Detroit.  They're coming off of back to back 8 win seasons, and are picked to finish 8th out of 10 teams in the Horizon league. Mike Davis (formerly of Indiana) is the coach, and is on year two of guiding Detroit.  Last season Detroit was bad in almost every statistical way, and were ranked 320th in defense by KenPom.  The lone bright spot was Antoine Davis who averaged 26 PPG as a freshman on his way to all Horizon team honors.

By the end, Detroit should be screaming for "mercy" against the Pack.  I hope to see a healthy Markell back, and a 30+ point win where we empty the bench.   

Some semblance of a functioning half court offense that involves passing and off the ball movement (outside of someone besides a screener) is probably a bit much to ask for.  Maybe we'll see some of the soft match up zone that I swear I saw in the preseason game?  Of course that may have just been players out of position as well.  One can dare to dream though.


Let's have a little fun this year with predictions...
  1. What will be the outcome of this game?20 votes
    1. NC State rolls like a truly good team should (30+ point win)
      15.00%
    2. NC State feasts on a cupcake like an ACC team should (20-30 point win)
      25.00%
    3. NC State wins, but in kind of a "meh" way (10-20 point win)
      45.00%
    4. NC State with the win, but closer than it should be (< 10 point win)
      15.00%
    5. Detroit pulls off a shocking upset and wins
        0.00%
«13

Comments

  • TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 1,918PFN Referee
    edited November 6
    Rye, congrats you got promoted to a mod/PFN referee, brother.  Now you can "sticky" any game threads you might put up in the future (should be able to let me know if not).. so 2 ways to sticky.. when you post new thread you can sticky it then (via radio button that says "Announce in Wolfpack Sports and recent discussions" or if you forget you can come back and announce a thread with the little gear icon beside thread.. just set to same "Announce In Wolfpack Sports and recent discussions".  Feel free to play around with it.

    The rest of yall hear that?  Rye is a mod now so don't fuck around with him lol.
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,273PFN Referee
    I will kneel and kiss the ring.

    I will also no longer comment in any way that might be off topic of NC State sports.
  • TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 1,918PFN Referee
    Ha!  Yeah this software requires at least one category so we only got the one.. it was named Wolfpack Sports VERY early on.

    As far as this game goes the thing that most interests me will be Markell's status.. DJ will be back fairly soon I believe, but does the MJ issue linger?
  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 2,818PFN Referee
    Wait, can Seabron return for the second semester?  If not, we in a tight spot.  BB running the offense hurts my soul.
  • According to this article (https://packinsider.com/2019/11/06/31703/) Seabron is going to redshirt for the season.  So now we only have two point guards.  Harris should have stuck around.
  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 2,818PFN Referee
    so...we are completely dependent on Markell staying completely healthy, out of trouble, and never getting tired despite our style of play.
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,273PFN Referee
    edited November 6
    so...we are completely dependent on Markell staying completely healthy, out of trouble, and never getting tired despite our style of play.
    It sure looks that way to me.  The Seabron/Harris double whammy is some NC State "stuff."  Harris not leaving meant we lost Cone.  Seabron being here meant we lost Harris.  Now we lost both.

    The expectations for a season can turn incredibly quickly.....
  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 1,708
    Tiny Pinder, who had a decent career with the Globetrotters, set the school record for rebounds in a single game IIRC in an NIT game against Detroit in Reynolds.  There's the requisite series history tid bit for the thread.
  • RickRick Posts: 1,595PFN Referee
    Two points
    1) Someone screwed up with Seabron. He was a known academic risk so this is not a shock. This is not "bad luck"
    2) Good coaches can adjust to adversity. Moore had 3 starters and a main sub go out last year. He lost his starting PG, leading scorer and starting PF. He still won 20 some straight games and made the sweet 16. Quit belly aching and figure out how to adjust. The thing is, I am not sure KK can adjust. 
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 1,798
    The Pack best not underestimate how quick the Detroit team will be.  Instead of video games in the “projects” where round ball is king, they do agility drills constantly.  The signal is the report from a nitrate propelled projectile exiting a cylindrical mass at at velocity greater than approximately 1050 FPS and the ensuing shock wave produced by an accelerant contained to the point where the 0.355 diameter 124 grain projectile will only exit the interference fit of its containment vessel when the pressure approaches 35,000 PSI or approx 241 MPa.

    I believe there was a movement by some ethnic groups to better promote and have non members understand their heritage to rename the NBA Detroit Pistons to the DRVE BY’s.  However there was a contentious fight over that name from the Bulls and the Wizards.

    Let’s hope that the Pack is not the victim of a random, but slightly selective, figuratively speaking OF COURSE, similar event on Sunday PM
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 1,798
    ryebread said:
    Welp, the NC State men's basketball season kicked off with a bit of a whimper at home against GT.  For those who missed it, there was no Markell (injury), no DJ (suspension), no Seabron (out for the year, academic casualty) and no Harris (transfer because his minutes were going to be taken by Seabron), and there was no W for the Pack.  Jamie Luckie did say hello and reminded NC State fans that he's the same ref despite a new uniform.

    While there are no mulligans, and we're officially 0-1 in conference, this feels like what would be a "normal" starting game for NC State.  Let's pretend we're starting on Sunday, feast on a cupcake and go build from there.

    The Detroit Mercy Titans basketball program is probably best known as the former coaching stop for Dukie V.  That was arguably the high point for Detroit basketball as the now ESPN analyst went .731 over 4 seasons and made it to a Sweet 16.  Vitale then left for the greener pastures of the NBA, where he quickly flushed out as a head man at the Pistons.  The Mercy Titans have never made it back to the Sweet 16 and have only had 4 more NCAA tournament berths in the last 40 years.

    This year doesn't look that different for Detroit.  They're coming off of back to back 8 win seasons, and are picked to finish 8th out of 10 teams in the Horizon league. Mike Davis (formerly of Indiana) is the coach, and is on year two of guiding Detroit.  Last season Detroit was bad in almost every statistical way, and were ranked 320th in defense by KenPom.  The lone bright spot was Antoine Davis who averaged 26 PPG as a freshman on his way to all Horizon team honors.

    By the end, Detroit should be screaming for "mercy" against the Pack.  I hope to see a healthy Markell back, and a 30+ point win where we empty the bench.   

    Some semblance of a functioning half court offense that involves passing and off the ball movement (outside of someone besides a screener) is probably a bit much to ask for.  Maybe we'll see some of the soft match up zone that I swear I saw in the preseason game?  Of course that may have just been players out of position as well.  One can dare to dream though.


    KUDOS.  Great write up.  Your battlefield promotion is well deserved. However your wit and candor for other subjects, not in the mainstream vein of this venue, will be sorely missed.   Sort of like the Fonzie type that was the Terror of Hillsboro, but while at NCSU and got a degree in Criminal Science and later became the head of the FBI.  When he became a professional, he often lamented missing shutting down folks between the Velvet Cloak and the PR.  

    Factoid.....Beach Boys later revealed that the Little Old Lady from Pasadena, who was the terror of Colorado Boulevard....actually lived in Oxnard....but Oxnard did not fit their lyrical prose and no one had ever heard of it.  But she did have a Super Stock Dodge in a rickety old garage....go Granny....Go  GRANNY...GO...

  • OK, I'll apologize in advance for my musical nitpicking, but Little Old Lady From Pasadena was recorded by Jan and Dean.  In this case, no Beach Boys were involved in this record.  (In fairness, there was often much uncredited pollination between J&D and the Beach Boys.)
  • Yikes...had not heard no Seabron. 
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,273PFN Referee
    Roo: Nice of you to stay.  I will keep my posts between the guardrails.
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 1,798
    OK, I'll apologize in advance for my musical nitpicking, but Little Old Lady From Pasadena was recorded by Jan and Dean.  In this case, no Beach Boys were involved in this record.  (In fairness, there was often much uncredited pollination between J&D and the Beach Boys.)
    You are exactly right....as am I.  The story that I related came from the LAST Beach Boys concert that I went to.  LAST, because I sort of got fed up with the banter.  Note...I was at the New Years Eve concert in the Charlotte Coliseum (12/31/1964) and Glen Campbell has joined the group recently and was now “officially” a member.  He left in the spring when Mr. Wilson would not give him a fair share like his sons and cousin Mike got).  So...I did follow them.

    Jan Berry wrote the song and Jan and Dean recorded it and it was a hit.  It did, because of the Jan Berry and Bryan Wilson friendship and partnership, become one of The Beach Boys  staples.

    Mike Love was running off at the mouth back in the mid 2000’s or late 1990’s at Walnut Creek and gave a history lesson on every one of their “hits”.  So, he sort of took poetic license....but I think or assumed that his story was correct as I have often gone to concerts where the group or artist will talk about one of their standards.

    The reason it was my last....  he started his monologue about how many times they had performed California Girls in concert and rehearsals and how it sometimes was difficult to do things that you had done so many times that they were not challenging....but as a special favor to the Raleigh crowd, they would do it for the 7,531st time....again.  Some folks actually got up and left then.  We had prime seats under the canopy.  We never did another Beach Boys concert and rarely watched them on the Capitol PBS July 4 show.

    Thanks for the additional info....

  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,273PFN Referee
    edited November 7
    Rick said:
    Two points
    1) Someone screwed up with Seabron. He was a known academic risk so this is not a shock. This is not "bad luck"
    2) Good coaches can adjust to adversity. Moore had 3 starters and a main sub go out last year. He lost his starting PG, leading scorer and starting PF. He still won 20 some straight games and made the sweet 16. Quit belly aching and figure out how to adjust. The thing is, I am not sure KK can adjust. 

    Rick: You absolutely nailed it with this post. I mean spot on with both accounts.

    Seabron was at risk for not qualifying. Some schools were not pursuing him for that reason.  He was a risk, as was Lecque.  It tells you where recruiting was last year at this time.

    So we took him, but had to know all summer there were compliance issues.  My question is how the heck did Harris walk (because of Seabron) if the kid was not qualified? Harris had to have known that. That is the baffling “NC State stuff” part of this.

    I second your points about good coaches adjust. I would offer there’s a bit less parity in women’s basketball than men’s so our second stringers there might still be better than a lot of teams have.  While maybe not apples to apples, the point is valid about a good coach’s ability to adjust.

    I also fear KK might be stubborn. Unlike DD’s stubbornness (lack of confidence), HWSNBN’s (thinks he is smarter than everyone else), I feel like KK might “think he is a winner” and possibly not be self-reflective enough. I do hope I am wrong.

    I honestly believe that KK is really close from running a program that is an absolute monster.  It just needs a couple of tweaks (a set play, half court offense and a zone defense to mix it up a bit if man to man isn't working). That might sound like a lot, but I don't really think it is. The culture is there.  The effort is there.  The hunger and competitiveness is there. We seem to be doing things the right way and holding players accountable for mistakes. I think recruiting is going to get there. I like the press. I like the pace. I like the rebounding (we out rebound almost every team not named UNC). So much is very, very close. Maybe we just need an assistant that is an x's and o's tactician type?
  • ^Rye and Rick, i agree with the above, but I do think a bit of context is necessary. Remember how thin the roster KK inherited was from Gott? He needed bodies. He's in Year 3. Now, he went the transfer route to try and fill in roster spots. He's said repeatedly the turnover doesn't bother him given his prep school coaching days and the current landscape. But I think you can definitely make the case that given the combo of a very incomplete roster with underutilized scholarships in the previous regime, some inevitable roster turnover as he attempted to fill out a roster, plus the inherited recruiting investigation problems, you might take a little bit less risk with the type of player you recruit, either as a transfer or FR. As in, maybe don't recruit kids who've not played more than 1 season in 1 place (Harris) since Jr. High and kids who are academically risky (Seabron). That's not really a recipe for stability given what you've inherited. If anything, i think that's something he could be criticized for more than his "system."
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,273PFN Referee
    Gas:  I am less worried about recruiting.  I see your point but I think there are some extenuating circumstances.  

    First, I think we are trying to recruit fairly cleanly.  I never saw that out of Gott, and we’ll just stop there.

    Second we have this NCAA thing hanging over our head.  I think that significantly hurt us last season. I think things are coming around now.

    My comment was more about Harris than Seabron.  I was okay with Seabron, but how did Harris walk?
  • Interesting story 'Roo!  I haven't seen them in a long time now (1980's??) and I figure any band that has no one with the last name "Wilson" in it, isn't really the Beach Boys.  One thing is for sure:  Mike Love is a jerk (to put it mildly.)  That seems to be the common thread through decades of inter-band squabbles.  Somewhere, he seemed the to acquire the notion that he was as critical to their success as Brian Wilson - who is a bonafide musical genius in my estimation (and I have a music degree to back up my opinion.)  Great bands are very much a matter of chemistry and I can't say if the Beach Boys would have been as big with someone else singing the low lines, but if I had to jettison one of the two (Mike or Brian), I know who I would keep - mental health issues and all!  Apologies to everyone else for geeking out on the Beach Boys on this Wolfpack Sports thread!  We will now return you to your regularly-scheduled program . . .
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 1,798
    Interesting story 'Roo!  I haven't seen them in a long time now (1980's??) and I figure any band that has no one with the last name "Wilson" in it, isn't really the Beach Boys.  One thing is for sure:  Mike Love is a jerk (to put it mildly.)  That seems to be the common thread through decades of inter-band squabbles.  Somewhere, he seemed the to acquire the notion that he was as critical to their success as Brian Wilson - who is a bonafide musical genius in my estimation (and I have a music degree to back up my opinion.)  Great bands are very much a matter of chemistry and I can't say if the Beach Boys would have been as big with someone else singing the low lines, but if I had to jettison one of the two (Mike or Brian), I know who I would keep - mental health issues and all!  Apologies to everyone else for geeking out on the Beach Boys on this Wolfpack Sports thread!  We will now return you to your regularly-scheduled program . . .
    My degree is a BS in EO (1968 - Production Tech Option)....SO it have  PTO degree....I guess that would make me a redneck....assuming folks know what PTO commonly means.

    My musical background is varied.  10 grueling years of piano, but I mastered Chop Sticks.... (I was fascinated by the Eddie Duchin Story where Carmen Cavallaro played the "REAL" Piano.  

    About 58 Years of HS Band....Trombone, Don't cha know....and an alumni or the Power Sound of the South or Thundering Herd of the Frozen @$$es that braved the Philly stadium in December, 1963 and our slide and valve oil froze so we had to use glycerin and alcohol.  

    THEN....a LOT of listening to a VARIETY of stuff over the years.  The internet was a boon as you could look stuff up.  

    My hat's off to a PURE music person...

    I have attended my fair share of concerts....many several times just to enjoy.  The Iggles ain't what they USED to be and I would not pay $200 for a mid section floor seat now....as I did a few times before....

    Billie Joel has aged worse than me and he is more mellow, but does not have the stamina that he did (nor do I).  List could go on.  BEST concert ever (sounds like a line from "The Way We WERE) was a John Denver concert in the GSO Coliseum where he was on a rotating stage with a very small backup group.  He played his gitiar.  He stayed ON STAGE for over 2 hours.  Never took a break.  Let his backup take a 20 minute break and sung and talked.  Had the fortune of front row seats.  THAT was a treat....something to never be forgotten.....Bob Seger was discovered late in my life.  Where was I in the 70's (lost in the 60's again).  My Pandora has a great mix of his "Station" and Joel and Iggles and a few others...

    BOY....do I lose focus easily....back to the main drama where our Wolf Pup is stranded in the jungle late at night....


  • Pack78Pack78 Posts: 260
    Best concert I remember was Reginald Dwight (Elton John, GREAT showman) at the outdoor theater Starlight in KC, MO back in the early 80s...
  • BasspackerBasspacker Posts: 162
    Not to pile onto the high jack, but my best hands down concert of all time was Pink Floyd in Carter Finley stadium.  And I've seen a lot of great shows over the years from Stones, Plant, VH, U2, Yes, KISS,Talking Heads, AC/DC, Ozzy....yes Ozzy, to the Gibson Brothers and too many to name or in some cases....remember, lol.
  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 1,708
    Bruce Springsteen. Galliard Auditorium which only seats about 4,000. He played for 3.5 hours. 
    Bob Seger in about 2007. He was as good then as when I saw him in Reynolds while at State. In two weeks it’s Willie Nelson
  • JpageJpage Posts: 51
    WOW, I thought this was Pack fans thread, Didn’t know it was MTV, Interesting!
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 1,798
    Texpack said:
    Bruce Springsteen. Galliard Auditorium which only seats about 4,000. He played for 3.5 hours. 
    Bob Seger in about 2007. He was as good then as when I saw him in Reynolds while at State. In two weeks it’s Willie Nelson
    Bob Seger circa 2010 in Greenville....the haze was thick in the balcony.  He told the tale of how he wrote "We've got TONIGHT"..  

    Then in the RBC (it WAS the RBC...I think THEN...) in Raleigh.

    Huey Lewis in Palm Beach City in early 2014....

    NOW....I watch this every few months...just to laugh.....Since I heard Seger's story about how he had it almost written....and it was "This Old House"....but the lyrics were NOT about a house....  THEN, he went to see  "The Sting"....YES...it was THAT long ago.  When Redford knocked on the waitresses door at 3 in the morning and she said...YES...

    He went home and changed the title and tuned up the lyrics and the rest is probably his second BEST revenue producing song.  Like a ROCK is the first.  Chevy owned it for 20 years and it is the SECOND longest running Chevy (or maybe CAR) commercial.  SEE the USA in a CHEVROLET is first....

    Here is the YouTube that is cool...or at least to me...drunk or sober...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjejCIYVGAw

    I HAVE been known to snuggle up next to my DW of 54 years (in a few days) and whisper....We've Got Tonight.  I think that my record on "Scoring" will be better than the WP's tonight.....
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