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Ball State Cardinals (9/21 at 7pm on ESPNU)

1-2 from the MAC. Coming off a 41-31 loss to Florida Atlantic (Lane Kiffin). Opened the season with a 10 point loss against Indiana. Easily topped Fordham (I-AA)  in Week 2. 
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Comments

  • WulfpackWulfpack Posts: 1,288
    Ball State head coach Mike Neu was on e the coach of the now defunct Carolina Cobras of the Arena Football League. Neu, now in his fourth year, hasn’t done anything of note at Ball State. He hasn’t finished higher than 5th in the MAC West. 
  • No doubt they view us as a very winnable game. For us the question is, will DD have the stones to start Hockman for this game, or will he go the safe route with McKay in order to pick up a sure victory while leaving us no better off as we start ACC play.
  • TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 1,777PFN Referee
    edited September 15
    pinning this one to the top. bjd looks like wuf got  us a thread going..  but feel free to get one going next week! you guys are more creative than I am anyway
  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 1,513
    We will know a lot about what DD really wants to do with this season when we see who starts at QB next Saturday.   If you stick with McKay you’re trying to get to 6-6 with 7-5 being the absolute ceiling. You’re putting 5-7 and maybe even 4-8 in play as well. You likely won’t feel great about the position heading into 2020 either. Roll the dice and give Hockman a start to get him ready for conference play. 
  • Vawolf82Vawolf82 Posts: 312PFN Referee
    If you stick with McKay you’re trying to get to 6-6 with 7-5 being the absolute ceiling.

    My thoughts exactly.
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,042
    Mine as well.  McKay means 7-5 at best but trying to look like it was a good year.  Where does that put us next year?  

    Come out with Hockman or Leary.  This game had better be winnable regardless of the QB.
  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 2,508PFN Referee
    Shit, make this an open tryout for Hockman and Leary.  Let them alternate series.
  • TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 1,777PFN Referee
    Pack -19
  • GreywolfGreywolf Posts: 647
    McKay is the starter on the depth chart. Hockman likely to come in unless there has been a complete transformation. Leary has gone from 2-time Gatorade Player of the Year in NJ to 3rd string at QBU. We develop quarterbacks here?
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,042
    If McKay is the starter, and Leary doesn't get a snap, then I think we're looking at a long year, and a kid hitting the transfer portal.
  • GreywolfGreywolf Posts: 647
    I could be Okay with Hockman at QB as long as Leary was back-up, not Mckay.
  • Vawolf82Vawolf82 Posts: 312PFN Referee
    edited September 17
    we're looking at...a kid hitting the transfer portal.

    With 3 QB's competing for the starting job, I've always expected one to transfer.

  • ryebread said:
    If McKay is the starter, and Leary doesn't get a snap, then I think we're looking at a long year, and a kid hitting the transfer portal.
    If this pans out, I think were looking at two long years. 
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,042
    Va: Agreed.  With 3 jammed up class wise like this, one likely seems gone.  I thought that prior to the year as well.

    gvl: We have Finley’s younger brother coming in this year.  While I am sure we would love to redshirt him, he might just take the starting job. Yeah he’s a 3 star, but I like our odds there. My best guess is someone emerges this year who can play next as well.  To your point if it is McKay then it likely is two long years.
  • There's nothing in that WVU game that wasn't already apparent in games 1-2 with the QB. Poor 3rd down execution, badly thrown balls, poorly timed throws, locking onto receivers. The only difference was an upgrade in talent in an away game. I was hearing last Spring and in fall that the staff was really high on Leary, among friends who played and stayed connected. I honestly don't know what changed. I suspect it's the putrid metric driven approach, and a need to justify a decision. If you don't ask the right questions, you get the wrong answers. 
  • Exactly, Gashouse.  Would love to know what the coaches REALLY thought about the QB play in game 3 and why we should not start Hockman next week.  
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,042
    edited September 17
    Gas: I am with you. McKay didn’t just have “ one bad half against WVa.”  Those other games were won despite bad QB play.  We’ve seen what McKay can do at QB.

    What I don’t understand is Leary.  Drink was supposedly a QB wizard and had two years with a highly skilled prospect.  That kid should have been ready (with some lumps, not at a postgrad Finley level). Yet we brought in Hockman, which signaled to me that we didn’t think he was.

    On this year’s starter, it feels to me like DD has an offense that he wants, and that offense involves a running QB. A running QB (or even one that appears to be able to because I am not sure McKay is really much of a runner) who is a game manager and doesn’t throw picks is seemingly more important than a passer who can generate offense (or complete a forward pass).  

    We should have figured it out by now.  If not for Drink bringing Finley, DD’s QBs would have been Mitchell (the WR), Brissett (who threw anything longer than 15 yards into the dirt in college), McClendon and now McKay.

    You and Grey are right.  That metrics crap is about rigging the system to put McKay in, while trying to make it look like a fair process so as not to lose the team.

    Newsflash Dave. The players are too smart for that.  You’ve already lost them.  That team quit after the deep pick produced nothing more than a field goal.

    And Finley/Drink may turn out to be the Rivers/Chow or Hodge that masks much more systemic problems....
  • And Finley/Drink may turn out to be the Rivers/Chow or Hodge that masks much more systemic problems....
    This is my fear as well. 
  • This is going to be a long season.  The only possible ACC team worse than State is maybe Georgia Tech. Maybe. I won't worry about watching this weekend. I just don't think DD will be able to shake things up and turn this around. QB is not the only problem. 
  • And Finley/Drink may turn out to be the Rivers/Chow or Hodge that masks much more systemic problems....
    This is my fear as well. 
    Wait - are you saying that history sometimes repeats itself?
  • WulfpackWulfpack Posts: 1,288
    This is going to be a long season.  The only possible ACC team worse than State is maybe Georgia Tech. Maybe. I won't worry about watching this weekend. I just don't think DD will be able to shake things up and turn this around. QB is not the only problem. 
    I disagree - there are a whole lot of ACC teams as bad or worse off than us. Outside of Clemson, most of the games will be virtual toss ups. A second place finish in the Atlantic is not out of question just looking at the early results. 
  • The staff had Jalan McClendon for 2 years before Drink/Finley arrived but guess what, it’s a quarterback tie.  Yeah, it was Finley from the get go.   I keep reading about player development but then I read that the oc before Drink didn’t spend much time with the backup quarterbacks.  

    There were several write ups that Leary was the real deal on the practice squad.  Perhaps it’s just a routine plug article for the staff writers.  It just seems we are going to see another 4* Qb recruit not develop.  It’s the old “but you don’t have game experience” line.  Who’s fault is that?
  • GreywolfGreywolf Posts: 647
    I like most of what DD has done. I don't like the way he is managing his coaches. 

    My wife is the Head Coach at my house. Still I have a deal with her (which I have to remind her of occasionally.) The deal is she can tell me what she wants OR she can tell me how to do it. But she can't tell me what she wants AND how to do it. 

    I think that DD is telling his OC and QB coach what he wants and how to do it. Back off coach and let them coach. Make one OC the guy who calls the plays and hold that one accountable. Make the other one the guy who manages the skilled position substitutions and hold him accountable.  

    We have the talent to win games in our division if Doeren does what the HC is supposed to do -- hold the coordinators accountable. And get fired up about winning games.
  • KingHippo_fka_BJD95KingHippo_fka_BJD95 Posts: 2,508PFN Referee
    I always worried heavily about losing Drink.  Despite all the criticism he always took (as any long-term OC will), I always considered him our own Mad Genius/QB Whisperer.

    That's hard to replace.
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 1,042
    BJD: All OCs have flaws, so I agree that we were too fixated on Drink's scheme/play call issues.  He was seemingly good at developing Finley. 

    If Leary wasn't developed though, then that's seemingly on Drink.  Would you agree?

    What I liked most about Drink had nothing to do with what happened on the field.  I thought he was awesome with the media.  To me he looked, sounded and acted like a head coach.  He obviously had a great reputation offensively.

    I honestly thought he fit better to NC State's fan base than DD does.  I think App got a great coach, like they seemingly have multiple times.............. 

    For me, the biggest loss of Drink was in succession planning.  If DD went to greener pastures, Drink would have been the natural one to promote.  Now we don't have that option.
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