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State Releases NCAA Notice of Allegations and NCSU response

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Comments

  • well, i will quote Blazing Saddles for an NCAA opinion:
    Sheriff murdered! Innocent women and children blown to bits!
    We've got to protect our phony-baloney jobs, gentlemen.
  • In positive news I came across this.  Plus one for the good guys (NOT the NCAA).

    BTW, ESPN should do a 30 for 30 on how the NCAA has tried (and successfully) screwed so many programs and let others slide.  Oh, wait, nevermind.

    https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/09/04/judge-denies-ncaa-access-to-documents-from-corruption-investigation/
  • ^I work pretty regularly with sports journalists and documentary film makers, some award winning ones that I'd rate among the best. This here cat has suggested a few 30 for 30s for good ole PewNC more than once. You'd be more likely to get one on the NCAA than the Baby blue. Take the recent documentaries on K...You think there's a sniff of any impropriety there? I haven't seen the final product but having had a small hand in some of those, it's not in the script.
  • freshmanin83freshmanin83 Posts: 1,569PFN Referee
    Dennis Smith jr. Denies that he or his family received any money or else why did he drive his grandmother's car while at State. He has maintained this stance told NC State this and although the NCAA has not interviewed him would tell them the same thing.

    https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/article235380332.html
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,153PFN Referee
    I had heard rumblings that DSJ had gotten cold feet, then was recommitted.  This was late fall before he early enrolled.  

    What I always wondered was who paid for his surgery.... 

    Unlike most Pack fans, I really hold no ill will towards DSJ.  These kids are getting paid.  He’d have been dumb to come to State for free given Duke surely would have paid, particularly if he needed surgery.

    I do find the Gott phone records thing funny.  I wonder how many extra-marital issues he is trying to hide...
  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 2,687
    edited September 2019
    So much going on in this, as well current events.....ir all blurs.  But the headlines are similar......

    NCAA suspends the time limits for a response 

    Court documents or FBI information shielded or suppressed from NCAA

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nikes-stock-surge-toward-record-high-would-add-35-points-to-the-dows-price-2019-09-25

    Nike stock surging and analysts raising target to $100 per share.  

    Sort of reminds me of the 1966 flick, Allie.   Almost a cult film about someone who has no morals or allegiance to anyone and uses every trick in the book to get what he wants.   Really not a classic....the song, “What’s it all about, Alfie?” was mor popular than the movie.  In Alfie’s case....it was conquest and sex.   HMMMM. I think that I recognize an Alfie character that used to coach at NCSU.

    But, the real “IT” in the question is $$$$.  Maybe a new parody song, What’s it all about, NIKE?  or maybe What’s it all about, NCAA?

    As long as a governing body allows certain favored institutions and/or individuals to unfairly compete and the media is complicit in shielding the public from their underhanded behavior, they will remain a farce..... 




  • I do find the Gott phone records thing funny.  I wonder how many extra-marital issues he is trying to hide...
    Rye, on the Gottfather’s phone records, I don’t know if the news organs will put up a fight, but the N.C. Public records law makes no distinction between personal communications and public ones on state issued devices. The fact that the judge is allowing this is quite strange if you ask me. If you recall, Butchie boy was granted this courtesy, but the distinction was that he was using the 411 area code phone, his private device, not a public one. I’m not aware of the case law on this particular point, but I think if it’s pressed Gott or the State would be required to turnover 
  • SamIamSamIam Posts: 488
    As someone who is looking at a state issued phone and have been a user of it for over 1 years I am more than informed that any communication on that particular device can and will become evidence if deemed necessary in a criminal or civil trial.  A person has no expectation of privacy when using a government issued device such as a phone in north carolina.
  • 4in124in12 Posts: 186
    ...
    Sort of reminds me of the 1966 flick, Allie.   Almost a cult film about someone who has no morals or allegiance to anyone and uses every trick in the book to get what he wants.   Really not a classic....the song, “What’s it all about, Alfie?” was mor popular than the movie.  In Alfie’s case....it was conquest and sex.
    ...
    FWIW - it was remade in 2004 with Jude Law in the Michael Caine part.

  • AdventurooAdventuroo Posts: 2,687
    edited September 2019
    4in12 said:
    ...
    Sort of reminds me of the 1966 flick, Allie.   Almost a cult film about someone who has no morals or allegiance to anyone and uses every trick in the book to get what he wants.   Really not a classic....the song, “What’s it all about, Alfie?” was mor popular than the movie.  In Alfie’s case....it was conquest and sex.
    ...
    FWIW - it was remade in 2004 with Jude Law in the Michael Caine part.

    Old am I said a short wise man to a young whipper snapper......

    I remember the original one.....not a great flick, but the song lives on.....

    I think that we all now what “IT” is or is about....but “is” can have various meanings....I remember a debate about that from an individual that was up on charges from a do-nothing governing body.

    Indianapolis and WDC have a lot in common as they are loaded with ineptitude and the folks are making big bucks and doing nothing...
  • freshmanin83freshmanin83 Posts: 1,569PFN Referee
    edited December 2019

    Looks like we are challenging the level I accusations and admitting level II violations and imposing self sanctions in accordance with level II.


    "Within the response, the University also suggested self-imposed punishments including:

    • Loss of one scholarship for the 2021-22 recruiting class (or an early one if possible)

    • Reduction of official recruiting visits in 2019-20

    • Prohibition of unofficial visits during a two-week period of 2019-20

    • $5,000 fine"

    http://www.technicianonline.com/sports/article_99c40602-1ade-11ea-b684-873eaa7b9681.html


    https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/article238196019.html

  • RickRick Posts: 2,358PFN Referee
    So we roll over. That's State

    Well when you give the AD incentive not to fight.

    I don't think there is a not dirty, corrupt business than men's college sports.

  • choppack1choppack1 Posts: 1,653
    Apparently we didn’t get the memo that the NCAA doesn’t reward cooperation. Rather, they see it as a sign of weakness and go for the jugular. We will see what they do.
  • TexpackTexpack Posts: 2,513
    This doesn't look like rolling over to me.  We basically told the NCAA that they can't prove their case and even if they did prove that the money went to Smith, it wasn't a recruiting inducement.  I wouldn't be surprised if Early pocketed the $$.
  • ^ That’s the general consensus that I’ve been reading.  
  • TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 2,664PFN Referee
    edited December 2019
    Yeah so ironically enough we hired the same attorney's that UNC used to get out of their cheating.  I didn't see how much we paid for their services but if memory serves me correct UNC paid them 12 million dollars.

    If we paid even a fraction of that for their services then one would think that would certainly be a factor in the decision making concerning buyouts and employment status with DD this year.

    Pleased to see us fighting this though.

  • RickRick Posts: 2,358PFN Referee
    So we are self imposing punishments for things far far less than UNC did for decades and they received no punishments. 
    Sorry if I see that as bending over. By admitting to anything, the NCAA will not reward you, they will see it as weakness and come at you even harder. We apparently learned nothing from UNC. You deny deny deny. Refuse to work with them and lawyer up. 

    So we do the opposite. Just shaking my head.
  • SamIamSamIam Posts: 488
    Rick said:
    So we are self imposing punishments for things far far less than UNC did for decades and they received no punishments. 
    Sorry if I see that as bending over. By admitting to anything, the NCAA will not reward you, they will see it as weakness and come at you even harder. We apparently learned nothing from UNC. You deny deny deny. Refuse to work with them and lawyer up. 

    So we do the opposite. Just shaking my head.
    Expect something different Rick?  Grumble, grumble, gripe but do nothing to change the narrative.  
  • TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 2,664PFN Referee
    edited December 2019
    You're going to see what you want to see, but UNC self imposed punishments as well.  And we did lawyer up too, in fact with the exact same firm.
  • RickRick Posts: 2,358PFN Referee
    SamIam said:
    Rick said:
    So we are self imposing punishments for things far far less than UNC did for decades and they received no punishments. 
    Sorry if I see that as bending over. By admitting to anything, the NCAA will not reward you, they will see it as weakness and come at you even harder. We apparently learned nothing from UNC. You deny deny deny. Refuse to work with them and lawyer up. 

    So we do the opposite. Just shaking my head.
    Expect something different Rick?  Grumble, grumble, gripe but do nothing to change the narrative.  

    No I guess I did not expect anything different. We are NC State. 

    The 30 for 30 about the 83 championship was on last night. I was watching it. My son walked by and asked why I was watching that again. I said, because it was the last time we were relevant. Based on how our athletic department has been and is being run, I fele confident in saying we will never be relevant in either men's basketball or football again. 
  • MarkMark Posts: 2
    We grab the ankles. It's what we do. We hired an elite insider in Boo. At least that's how it appears. We don't buck the cabal--we fight for their table scraps.
  • ryebreadryebread Posts: 2,153PFN Referee
    edited December 2019
    There's another way to look at this one. 

    The FBI and the government is watching the NCAA on this round.  If the NCAA can't police themselves, then their whole non-profit sham goes down.  The NCAA "HAS" to do something this time, ironically in large part because they so blatantly avoided punishing UNC.  This truly will be that the sins of UNC will be applied to NC State (and others).  So while as unfair as it is, I really only see two choices for NC State:

    1) Lawyer up, fight for years, hold out: While the fighter in me wants this approach, it's expensive and it suggests that the NCAA has a real case.  Why would we be fighting hard if it's minor?  It will just be the storm cloud that hangs over the program for years. 

    2) Take a wrist slap and move on: Vacate some wins, take a scholarship hit, stop paying lawyers, blame Gott/Early/Yow. Get the storm cloud out from over our program, where other coaches (cough, Roy) are using it against us.

    The NCAA has a bigger bank account than NC State, and they have the Feds watching. I doubt we'd even "win" in scenario 1 because of the optics, and we'd spend millions fighting. I don't like it, but scenario 2 seems like the more prudent choice. For all Gott's shenanigans, if this is all that we end up with, I tend to think we should thank our lucky stars. 

    We shouldn't be so blinded by our hatred of UNC and the unfairness of the NCAA (and I hate both), that we lose sight of what is the best thing for NC State. We can't cut off our nose to spite our faces.  Let's move on quickly from this mess.

    There's one other thing to consider. NC State institutionally makes money from the current system, the TV contracts, etc.. As unfair as this punishment would be, the university would rather have that $$$ that comes with big time sports.  They don't really want to see that model go down, any more than the NCAA does.  By copping the plea, we're helping to show that the current model "works."
  • You're going to see what you want to see, but UNC self imposed punishments as well.  And we did lawyer up too, in fact with the exact same firm.


    Yup. That evil, corrupt women's basketball! There's just too much money in it and the WNBA!

    Kinda hard to scapegoat another less important program in this case especially with how well our women's team is doing. :D I guess the strategy is denying and trying to take the lesser of two punishments.

    Don't worry. I'm sure Swofford is going to come to the meeting with the infractions committee as a sign of support for us like he did with the Cheaters!

  • TheAliasTrollTheAliasTroll Posts: 2,664PFN Referee
    edited December 2019
    Oh I wasn't even thinking about UNC womens basketball program.  I was thinking about the UNC football reduced scholarships & postseason ban.. obviously not enough punishment for decades of cheating.

    Maybe we are reading different articles.  The one I saw said we are forcing NCAA to prove that we paid DSJ.  We aren't just laying over or bending over and taking it as Rick and others have said.

    Rick, where are you seeing (or what are you referencing?) that says we are just bowing down to the NCAA?
  • RickRick Posts: 2,358PFN Referee
    Oh I wasn't even thinking about UNC womens basketball program.  I was thinking about the UNC football reduced scholarships & postseason ban.. obviously not enough punishment for decades of cheating.

    Maybe we are reading different articles.  The one I saw said we are forcing NCAA to prove that we paid DSJ.  We aren't just laying over or bending over and taking it as Rick and others have said.

    Rick, where are you seeing (or what are you referencing?) that says we are just bowing down to the NCAA?

    IMO by agreeing to any punishment we are giving in to the NCAA. No one who has done anything less than UNC should receive any punishment whatsoever until that injustice is corrected. 
    Though, Rye is probably correct that it is the right thing to do. It is just another nail in the coffin that is men's college sports for me. It would not surprise me that in the next 20 years we find out how much out right cheating and corruptness really happens. The system is completely broken and until the NCAA is abolished and replaced with an organization that will really monitor the schools every championship is nothing but a facade. 
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